Top Law Schools

They're up on the GW Law website (--LinkRemoved--)

Medians, Class of 2013:
GPA - 3.79
LSAT - 167

Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

jtemp320 wrote:Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

Gdubs takes splitters, Boalt doesn't. So in terms of admissions chances, this is a little deceptive.

flyingpanda wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

Gdubs takes splitters, Boalt doesn't. So in terms of admissions chances, this is a little deceptive.

True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

jtemp320 wrote:

flyingpanda wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

Gdubs takes splitters, Boalt doesn't. So in terms of admissions chances, this is a little deceptive.

True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

Yeah it's definitely the former. It's fun to look at the LSN graphs and look at how all this plays out, or at least it was when I was applying. Now I just don't care.

jtemp320 wrote:True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

It's more indicative of how screwed up Boalt's admissions philosophy is. GW's numbers are good for their rank, but Boalt's are fucking terrible for theirs.

d34dluk3 wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

It's more indicative of how screwed up Boalt's admissions philosophy is. GW's numbers are good for their rank, but Boalt's are fucking terrible for theirs.

Actually I kind of respect and appreciate the different admissions philosophies. Some schools try to get balanced GPA/LSAT apps (Mich, Berkeley) and some schools go for the high medians (UVA, GW). It makes it easier for people to find schools that are good fits in terms of numbers.

flyingpanda wrote:

d34dluk3 wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

It's more indicative of how screwed up Boalt's admissions philosophy is. GW's numbers are good for their rank, but Boalt's are fucking terrible for theirs.

Actually I kind of respect and appreciate the different admissions philosophies. Some schools try to get balanced GPA/LSAT apps (Mich, Berkeley) and some schools go for the high medians (UVA, GW). It makes it easier for people to find schools that are good fits in terms of numbers.

It's one thing to have a philosophy, it's another to have a class that is far inferior to that of your peer schools because of your wacky admissions policy. (Take a look at the medians, Boalt doesn't edge MVP by much in GPA and gets destroyed in LSAT)

d34dluk3 wrote:

flyingpanda wrote:

d34dluk3 wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:True - I just think this is surprising/revealing about how deceptive medians can be...either that or something crazy just happened w/ 2010 classes at these two schools (I'd say the former...)

It's more indicative of how screwed up Boalt's admissions philosophy is. GW's numbers are good for their rank, but Boalt's are fucking terrible for theirs.

Actually I kind of respect and appreciate the different admissions philosophies. Some schools try to get balanced GPA/LSAT apps (Mich, Berkeley) and some schools go for the high medians (UVA, GW). It makes it easier for people to find schools that are good fits in terms of numbers.

It's one thing to have a philosophy, it's another to have a class that is far inferior to that of your peer schools because of your wacky admissions policy. (Take a look at the medians, Boalt doesn't edge MVP by much in GPA and gets destroyed in LSAT)

Hey, as someone at Boalt's LSAT median and a little above their GPA median I love what Boalt is doing with their admissions philosophy. I mean come on the LSAT is one day of your life - sometimes people cant sleep the night before and misdiagram a LG. Lets think about GPA, lets think about softs...who are the indivduals that make up a class?

Unless I do better on my October retake in which case "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?"

jtemp320 wrote:Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

The fact that UCLA has medians of 3.77/168 is even more embarrassing for Boalt, since there's significant overlap in their applicant pools.

im_blue wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:Whoa -

Boalt - 3.80, 167
GW - 3.79...167

The fact that UCLA has medians of 3.77/168 is even more embarrassing for Boalt, since there's significant overlap in their applicant pools.

Boalt rejects a ton of people with both numbers above their medians. I'm sure they aren't feeling too embarrassed by it (whether it's smart or not is a different subject).

I've met people from Boalt, some of whom are my friends. They have people way above their medians and way below. But everyone is passionate, and the ones with low medians have some amazing personal stories and character. It's not all about the numbers! And frankly if it was, and all schools did exactly the same thing, these forums wouldn't need to exist. There would just be one master guide to it all.

I wonder if GW will continue to rise in the rankings from those medians.

cavalierHoo wrote:I wonder if GW will continue to rise in the rankings from those medians.

Medians everywhere are up due to last year's exceptionally large volume of applicants. Hard to tell at this point if GW's increase represents a trend beyond that trend or not.

d34dluk3 wrote:

cavalierHoo wrote:I wonder if GW will continue to rise in the rankings from those medians.

Medians everywhere are up due to last year's exceptionally large volume of applicants. Hard to tell at this point if GW's increase represents a trend beyond that trend or not.

It doesn't - the reason why GW rose in the rankings last year is unrelated. A couple years ago, US News started including part-time matriculants in the LSAT/GPA medians used to calculate rankings, which bumped down schools like GW and Fordham with big PT programs. Last year, GW moved most of their PT seats to the full-time program to bring their medians and ranking back up. Now they're pretty stable - last year's medians were 3.77 /167, and this year's are 3.79 /167.

im not a math guy, but i don't get how the medians at these schools are so much higher than the gap between the 25th and 75th. i know they're not taking the mean, but isn't the 25th, the 25th of the median? it seems like the median is right at all their 75th percentiles.

is there a general thread for new c/o 2013 medians?
If not, someone should start one.
i just started UGA. i know our medians are the same as last year at 3.7/164. The 25th and 75th lsat are up to 162-166 though.

justadude55 wrote:im not a math guy, but i don't get how the medians at these schools are so much higher than the gap between the 25th and 75th. i know they're not taking the mean, but isn't the 25th, the 25th of the median? it seems like the median is right at all their 75th percentiles.

The median is not related to the 25 and 75, other than it obviously has to be between them.

Consider: 160, 163, 163, 166, 167, 167, 168, 168, 168, 168.

The 25th is 163, median is 167, 75th is 168.

How do you get a distribution like this? You accept really high LSATs, and the ones who can't get in anywhere better come to your school. It gets really hard for these schools to recruit say 169s and 170s with decent GPAs because those are approaching T14 numbers. But most of the 168s and 167s accept because you're their best offer. There is a long tail below the median because the "highest LSAT" pressure doesn't exist there. So you accept a broad smattering of people with high GPAs and interesting backgrounds, and get a bigger spread of LSATs as a result.

rayiner wrote:

justadude55 wrote:im not a math guy, but i don't get how the medians at these schools are so much higher than the gap between the 25th and 75th. i know they're not taking the mean, but isn't the 25th, the 25th of the median? it seems like the median is right at all their 75th percentiles.

The median is not related to the 25 and 75, other than it obviously has to be between them.

Consider: 160, 163, 163, 166, 167, 167, 168, 168, 168, 168.

The 25th is 163, median is 167, 75th is 168.

How do you get a distribution like this? You accept really high LSATs, and the ones who can't get in anywhere better come to your school. It gets really hard for these schools to recruit say 169s and 170s with decent GPAs because those are approaching T14 numbers. But most of the 168s and 167s accept because you're their best offer. There is a long tail below the median because the "highest LSAT" pressure doesn't exist there. So you accept a broad smattering of people with high GPAs and interesting backgrounds, and get a bigger spread of LSATs as a result.

is there a website that lists all the law schools' medians?

also, if you're above the 75th percentile LSAT and your GPA is decent, is it fair to say you're in regardless of college disciplinary sanctions pending you didn't murder/rape anyone?

Kudos to rayiner, and I'll note that that was TCR to...

d34dluk3 wrote:It's one thing to have a philosophy, it's another to have a class that is far inferior to that of your peer schools because of your wacky admissions policy.

Whereas matriculants at GW tend to be at or just above median for one number but relatively low in the other, other schools implement a more holistic approach and prefer a class full of applicants who excelled in both LSAT and GPA. Compare GW to BU:

http://gw.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
GW generally accepts people who exceed the LSAT median and many 161+ who exceed the GPA median. Applicants who are near or above both medians tend to go to higher ranked schools, so GW's class is made up generally of splitters.

http://bu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0910/
BU likes to admit applicants who have excelled in both GPA and LSAT. This results in 50/75 marks that are slightly lower and a 25 mark that is slightly higher - but while the higher medians give GW the advantage in US News, neither of those facts necessarily makes one class stronger than the other.

d34dluk3 wrote:a trend beyond that trend

More specific info on the class of 2013/2014 is up:

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Admissions/JD/Pages/Profile.aspx

Someone who wants to put the effort in can pull the 25/75 from it, but I'm tired from class today so that someone won't be me.

ooOOOoo

Illinois' medians are identical to Boalt's. 3.8 / 167

mi-chan17 wrote:More specific info on the class of 2013/2014 is up:

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Admissions/JD/Pages/Profile.aspx

Someone who wants to put the effort in can pull the 25/75 from it, but I'm tired from class today so that someone won't be me.

Nice to see a school that rarely yield protects. Just too bad it isn't in the t14. Also because these are all admitted applicants and not attending applicants it isn't possible to pull the 25th and 75th for this year's class out of this set of data.

St.Remy wrote: Nice to see a school that rarely yield protects. Just too bad it isn't in the t14. Also because these are all admitted applicants and not attending applicants it isn't possible to pull the 25th and 75th for this year's class out of this set of data.

Ah, good catch. Told you I was tired.