Top Law Schools

Ildeuce wrote:What are the pros and cons of each choice? I've been debating this one for a while now...

Is it better to take a scholarship at a lower-ranked school or attend a higher-ranked school at the sticker price?

There is absolutely no one "answer" to this question, though it is one of the most frequently asked. However, there are factors which one must take into account in order to properly make this exceedingly difficult choice, factors which I will attempt to delineate below:

A.) How vast is the rankings chasm between the two schools you're considering? If you're asking these boards whether to go to Cooly Law School on a full-ride or Michigan at sticker, the answers will be almost universally in favor of Michigan and you'll likely be written off as a troll - but that's an extreme case and unlikely to really be much of an issue. More commonly, people are forced to choose between a T14 and another well-regarded Tier 1 school, for instance Georgetown at sticker vs. George Washington with a full--scholarship, or between two schools of disparate (but not hugely so) rank, such as UC Davis and Loyola. Other common dilemmas include Columbia or Northwestern with a full-ride vs. Harvard or Yale with no money.

B.) How debt-averse are you? This is a very personal matter. Some people would gladly trade the prestige of going to Cornell for a free JD from Emory, others would be horrified at the mere thought, preferring $100,000 (or whatever) in debt because it offers them greater margin for error vis-a-vis class rank, more potential job offers, greater national portability of the degree, etc. You need to do your own cost-benefit analysis, and when doing so, you need to consider the following:

C.) What type of law do you want to practice? If you're interested in working for a swanky, Vault-type biglaw firm and hell-bent on starting at $160,000/year, then you're likely going to want to go to the highest-ranked school you can swing admission to, and debt be damned. But think about how sure you are that you want biglaw: Sure, the money's great, but the hours are long and the work is hard - do your homework and think a little about what you'd really like to do. If it turns out you're actually interested in Public Interest law, working as a public defender, saving the whales, doing pro-bono defenses for environmental causes, etc., then you need to think seriously about the kind of debt you're going to be in at graduation, because $200,000 in debt can be a real albatross when you're earning $40,000 a year. Two additional points to consider - 1) $100,000 in a scholarship may seem like a huge amount of money now, but realize that this amount is not as large when seen in the context that you could be making $160,000 upon graduation; and 2) you will not be paying taxes on that $100,000 in tuition savings, so it makes it effectively worth $150,000 in after tax dollars. Since the first point directs you towards the better school and the second point towards taking the scholarship, it shows that there is no clear answer on whether to take the scholarship or not.

D.) Where do you wish to live and work? Many people have their entire family in one city, or for whatever other reason they go into law school knowing what city they will eventually make their lives in. This is helpful, because these people have a unique opportunity to pursue scholarships at their regional schools. For instance: University of the Pacific-McGeorge Law School places superbly in the city of Sacramento, but quite poorly on the East Coast. If, however, you were 100% sure you wanted to live and practice in Sacramento, then taking a full-ride at McGeorge over, say, Noter Dame at sticker is almost a no-brainer. Similarly someone who had their heart set on Tampa-St. Pete would be far better off going to Stetson for free than going to Illinois at sticker. Etc. But again, this requires a high degree of certainty about your future location: The rule of thumb on these boards tends to be that if you're even 10-20% sure you might want to live elsewhere, then go to the best school you got into.

E.) How much do you personally value prestige and name recognition? This is hard to quantify, but for many people it is worth a substantial amount of money to be able to say they went to Harvard and they'd just never be as happy saying they went to Duke, or what-have-you. Give this some thought.

As you can see, there is no simple answer to this question, but there does exist a relatively boilerplate set of factors which you'll likely be told to consider should you pose such a question on these boards.

Knockglock wrote: If you want people to give specific advice for your situation, give specific details. Otherwise, this is just a continuation of a much debated topic for which there is no objective, correct answer.

Hannibal wrote:In some ways, you're choosing one choice or another.

1. If you go to a school at sticker, you pretty much have to go biglaw unless your school has a great loan repayment program.
2. If you go a lower school with money, the financial situation would give you less stress about the job hunt and job choice, but you'll be more locked into whatever region your school is in.

stargazin wrote:I think it depends on the specific school. Prelaw magazine recently came out with a list of the <a href="http://blog.clearadmit.com/law/2010/08/ ... g-to-value"> top 20 good value law schools </a href>. The factors were: the schools’ respective bar pass rates; the amount of debt a typical student graduates with; if employment rates are above 85% within the nine months after a class’ graduation; and the in-state tuition cost of attending the institution.

If the school's stats like bar pass rate and employment rate are high, I'd take the full ride for sure.

stargazin wrote:I think it depends on the specific school. Prelaw magazine recently came out with a list of the <a href="http://blog.clearadmit.com/law/2010/08/ ... g-to-value"> top 20 good value law schools </a href>. The factors were: the schools’ respective bar pass rates; the amount of debt a typical student graduates with; if employment rates are above 85% within the nine months after a class’ graduation; and the in-state tuition cost of attending the institution.

If the school's stats like bar pass rate and employment rate are high, I'd take the full ride for sure.

In the end, the thing about the legal profession is they are really prestige/ranking oriented, and use it as a proxy for intelligence and so it makes this question not nearly so clear cut, and in the end it is just a personal choice.

stargazin wrote:Employment rates are self reported? Interesting.

In the end, the thing about the legal profession is they are really prestige/ranking oriented, and use it as a proxy for intelligence and so it makes this question not nearly so clear cut, and in the end it is just a personal choice.

While everyone who goes to a top school is obviously very intelligent, I think people who go to lower ranked schools can still prove themselves. Yes, the ranking of the school is very important (especially when trying to get into biglaw), but that's not to say there's NO CHANCE to prove oneself if one didn't go to a top school. So I think it is very much a personal choice based on one's circumstances. In this economy, I think not having debt is a huge thing. Huge.

But if you are shooting for BigLaw/Big money they only hire out of top schools

stargazin wrote:

But if you are shooting for BigLaw/Big money they only hire out of top schools

Not necessarily. My sister's BIL graduated from Fordham U and works in NY for a big law firm.

stargazin wrote:You said that biglaw ONLY hires from the top schools, but most big law firms have at least a few associates from most major schools, and that adds up to a lot of non T14 people. And not everyone wants to go into biglaw. So again, it depends on the person's circumstances.

blowhard wrote:

stargazin wrote:You said that biglaw ONLY hires from the top schools, but most big law firms have at least a few associates from most major schools, and that adds up to a lot of non T14 people. And not everyone wants to go into biglaw. So again, it depends on the person's circumstances.

I agree it was an over-generalization but it's the only real way you can bet on even having a shot at biglaw. I agree some are served well by going to lower-ranked scores but I read your post as saying "it doesn't matter where you go as long as you prove yourself afterwards you will end up with the same opportunities."

stargazin wrote:You said that biglaw ONLY hires from the top schools, but most big law firms have at least a few associates from most major schools, and that adds up to a lot of non T14 people. And not everyone wants to go into biglaw. So again, it depends on the person's circumstances.

Hannibal wrote:

blowhard wrote:

stargazin wrote:You said that biglaw ONLY hires from the top schools, but most big law firms have at least a few associates from most major schools, and that adds up to a lot of non T14 people. And not everyone wants to go into biglaw. So again, it depends on the person's circumstances.

I agree it was an over-generalization but it's the only real way you can bet on even having a shot at biglaw. I agree some are served well by going to lower-ranked scores but I read your post as saying "it doesn't matter where you go as long as you prove yourself afterwards you will end up with the same opportunities."

You re-overgeneralize in your first damn sentence. I would much rather take a shot at Biglaw from a ~30 ranked LS while in the Top 10% than from Michigan at median.

stargazin wrote:Well, you can't reasonably predict that you'll be in the median of a T14 either, or that you'll be able to get the biglaw job of your dreams even at a T14. Not everyone from a T14 is able to get a biglaw job because mathematically there just aren't enough openings for the amount of people graduating every year.