Go All In or Fold? Forum

[lonelylenore]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so sorry in advance if it's in the wrong place. I searched the forum and didn't find what I was looking for, so here goes nothing!

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

After getting my A.A., I transferred to a four-year and quit my job. I worked at a hospital for many years, but resigned in '08 to "pursue other interests"-- namely schooling & poker.
I've played semi-pro in Atlantic City since 08, and have been going to college full-time, maintaining a good GPA. I say "semi-pro" because it's not a full-time gig, but it is my main source of income (I pay for school with loans, grants and a scholarship).

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app? Should I leave it off my resume and just explain that I haven't had a job the last two years because I was focusing on my studies (which is mostly true)? Is this kind of experience useful in a PS, or better left out?

Any advice will be helpful

[merichard87]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

[holydonkey]

worked for Matt Damon

[lonelylenore]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Thanks! I'm a little conflicted about whether to include it on my resume because I've never paid taxes on that income... thoughts?

[cartercl]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Yeah, but how does playing poker spark one's interest in practicing law? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious as to how OP would spin this.

[Iconoclast]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so sorry in advance if it's in the wrong place. I searched the forum and didn't find what I was looking for, so here goes nothing!

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

After getting my A.A., I transferred to a four-year and quit my job. I worked at a hospital for many years, but resigned in '08 to "pursue other interests"-- namely schooling & poker.
I've played semi-pro in Atlantic City since 08, and have been going to college full-time, maintaining a good GPA. I say "semi-pro" because it's not a full-time gig, but it is my main source of income (I pay for school with loans, grants and a scholarship).

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app? Should I leave it off my resume and just explain that I haven't had a job the last two years because I was focusing on my studies (which is mostly true)? Is this kind of experience useful in a PS, or better left out?

Any advice will be helpful

Have you kept detailed records and declared your poker winnings as income? If not, then it doesn't belong on a resume as anything other than a hobby.

Can it be spun into a decent PS? Sure it can. But again, it's not "semi-pro" unless you have documented and declared income. Lots of people play poker regularly and some of us win more often than we lose. But we don't go around calling ourselves semi-pro players.

[cartercl]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so sorry in advance if it's in the wrong place. I searched the forum and didn't find what I was looking for, so here goes nothing!

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

After getting my A.A., I transferred to a four-year and quit my job. I worked at a hospital for many years, but resigned in '08 to "pursue other interests"-- namely schooling & poker.
I've played semi-pro in Atlantic City since 08, and have been going to college full-time, maintaining a good GPA. I say "semi-pro" because it's not a full-time gig, but it is my main source of income (I pay for school with loans, grants and a scholarship).

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app? Should I leave it off my resume and just explain that I haven't had a job the last two years because I was focusing on my studies (which is mostly true)? Is this kind of experience useful in a PS, or better left out?

Any advice will be helpful

Have you kept detailed records and declared your poker winnings as income? If not, then it doesn't belong on a resume as anything other than a hobby.

Can it be spun into a decent PS? Sure it can. But again, it's not "semi-pro" unless you have documented and declared income. Lots of people play poker regularly and some of us win more often than we lose. But we don't go around calling ourselves semi-pro players.

Okay. Thanks for answering that. But that brings me to my next point which is that if OP hasn't paid taxes on his poker earnings and won't list it on his resume, then he really shouldn't put it in his PS unless he describes it (as you said) as a hobby. If that were the case then (to me) it would seem like he was just gambling. Is that really something you want to put in your PS under these circumstances (if true)?

[lonelylenore]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Yeah, but how does playing poker spark one's interest in practicing law? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious as to how OP would spin this.

Well, the way I see it, every hand in poker is like a summarized negotiation where people try to represent themselves in the most profitable manner. Further, the object is always to either present your "case" in the most convincing way or to find out the truth about the situation and then exploit it to your advantage... this to me seems quite similar to litigation...

[merichard87]

True enough if he didn't pay taxes he shouldnt list it as income but as another poster said he can list it as a hobby or in some other way if he chooses to put it on his resume. And not all PS's are specifically about practicing law. I'm not saying it would be easy but if OP could write his PS about playing poker I do think it would make stand out to adcomms. (And not just because he would seem like a chronic gambler)

[romothesavior]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Yeah, but how does playing poker spark one's interest in practicing law? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious as to how OP would spin this.

Your PS doesn't have to have anything to do with why you want to practice law. It is supposed to provide an insight to who you are as a person.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Spin it in your personal statement, if you want. It could make an interesting motif, but I don't know what it will add substantively. Don't put it anywhere else. And if you do put it in your PS, which I'm not even really that keen on, make sure it's hobby-esque, as others have already recommended.

[lonelylenore]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so sorry in advance if it's in the wrong place. I searched the forum and didn't find what I was looking for, so here goes nothing!

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

After getting my A.A., I transferred to a four-year and quit my job. I worked at a hospital for many years, but resigned in '08 to "pursue other interests"-- namely schooling & poker.
I've played semi-pro in Atlantic City since 08, and have been going to college full-time, maintaining a good GPA. I say "semi-pro" because it's not a full-time gig, but it is my main source of income (I pay for school with loans, grants and a scholarship).

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app? Should I leave it off my resume and just explain that I haven't had a job the last two years because I was focusing on my studies (which is mostly true)? Is this kind of experience useful in a PS, or better left out?

Any advice will be helpful

Have you kept detailed records and declared your poker winnings as income? If not, then it doesn't belong on a resume as anything other than a hobby.

Can it be spun into a decent PS? Sure it can. But again, it's not "semi-pro" unless you have documented and declared income. Lots of people play poker regularly and some of us win more often than we lose. But we don't go around calling ourselves semi-pro players.

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

[kalvano]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Thanks! I'm a little conflicted about whether to include it on my resume because I've never paid taxes on that income... thoughts?

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done

[cartercl]

I think, if done in good taste, that would make a great PS. And if it was your main source of income I would consider it a job and put it on a resume.

Yeah, but how does playing poker spark one's interest in practicing law? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious as to how OP would spin this.

Your PS doesn't have to have anything to do with why you want to practice law. It is supposed to provide an insight to who you are as a person.

Which could or could not address why one would want to practice law. But yes, I was incorrect in assuming that a PS must address this issue.

[profs<3mycomments]

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app?

Any advice will be helpful

First things first - your resume is unimportant for your law school application. Your UGPA and LSAT are important, everything else is peripheral.

I generally agree that it looks funny on a resume, although you could stick it at the bottom under "activities and interests" or whatever. That's probably the best move.

If you want to write your personal statement on it, go ahead. Probably won't be the first one they've seen.

Final tip: 50% of law profs are really into poker. Once you're at law school, tell them that you played semi-pro and they will like you.

[NU_Jet55]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so sorry in advance if it's in the wrong place. I searched the forum and didn't find what I was looking for, so here goes nothing!

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

After getting my A.A., I transferred to a four-year and quit my job. I worked at a hospital for many years, but resigned in '08 to "pursue other interests"-- namely schooling & poker.
I've played semi-pro in Atlantic City since 08, and have been going to college full-time, maintaining a good GPA. I say "semi-pro" because it's not a full-time gig, but it is my main source of income (I pay for school with loans, grants and a scholarship).

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app? Should I leave it off my resume and just explain that I haven't had a job the last two years because I was focusing on my studies (which is mostly true)? Is this kind of experience useful in a PS, or better left out?

Any advice will be helpful

This is not uncommon at all. I have about 10 close friends who are enrolling in law school in the fall of '10. Four of them have played professional poker for at least 18 months+ full time, and they are all including it on their resume (only 1 of them wrote their PS about it though). Law schools are used to this; it won't strike them as shady or even unique. Just put it on your resume.

[NU_Jet55]

Also, re: thread title, you are not clever.

HTH

[pandorasfox]

OP,
Depending on the school (religious or not), gambling might pose an ethical issue.. like brigham young probably wouldn't appreciate it... but it might make for a unique application. Just avoid sounding too much like you watch the movie Rounders everyday. Also, playing in a casino is definately more reputable than being an underground hustler. avoid mentioning any elicit activity.

and find a better way to describe it than "semi-pro". Sounds a little cheesy.

anyway, try to make it into a unique PS (or a cool 250 for yale) if you can do it without sounding like a gambler

but i wouldn't put it on a resume unless you had tax info on it. It just seems kind of seedy or something.

good luck

[lonelylenore]

Also, re: thread title, you are not clever.

HTH

[lonelylenore]

It's my understanding that resumes are becoming as important as academic history- and now I'm concerned about how to represent myself on my application.

My question is: Is this going to look shady on a law school app?

Any advice will be helpful

First things first - your resume is unimportant for your law school application. Your UGPA and LSAT are important, everything else is peripheral.

I generally agree that it looks funny on a resume, although you could stick it at the bottom under "activities and interests" or whatever. That's probably the best move.

If you want to write your personal statement on it, go ahead. Probably won't be the first one they've seen.

Final tip: 50% of law profs are really into poker. Once you're at law school, tell them that you played semi-pro and they will like you.

Awesome advice. TY!!

[NU_Jet55]

OP,
Depending on the school (religious or not), gambling might pose an ethical issue.. like brigham young probably wouldn't appreciate it... but it might make for a unique application. Just avoid sounding too much like you watch the movie Rounders everyday. Also, playing in a casino is definately more reputable than being an underground hustler. avoid mentioning any elicit activity.

and find a better way to describe it than "semi-pro". Sounds a little cheesy.

anyway, try to make it into a unique PS (or a cool 250 for yale) if you can do it without sounding like a gambler

but i wouldn't put it on a resume unless you had tax info on it. It just seems kind of seedy or something.

good luck

[Iconoclast]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

I would still shy away from any label other than hobby. If you're "earning a living" from it, then I'm guessing that you should either be reporting the entire net gain as either self employment income or gambling winnings... and not just the tourney winnings that the casino reports.

My opinion is that by choosing not to report the income, you've pretty much also made the choice to not be able to claim it as a job.

[lonelylenore]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

I would still shy away from any label other than hobby. If you're "earning a living" from it, then I'm guessing that you should either be reporting the entire net gain as either self employment income or gambling winnings... and not just the tourney winnings that the casino reports.

My opinion is that by choosing not to report the income, you've pretty much also made the choice to not be able to claim it as a job.

Yeah i think ur right.

[lonelylenore]

OP,
Depending on the school (religious or not), gambling might pose an ethical issue.. like brigham young probably wouldn't appreciate it... but it might make for a unique application. Just avoid sounding too much like you watch the movie Rounders everyday. Also, playing in a casino is definately more reputable than being an underground hustler. avoid mentioning any elicit activity.

and find a better way to describe it than "semi-pro". Sounds a little cheesy.

anyway, try to make it into a unique PS (or a cool 250 for yale) if you can do it without sounding like a gambler

but i wouldn't put it on a resume unless you had tax info on it. It just seems kind of seedy or something.

good luck

Brigham young is def not in my list of apps. But thanks. I think it might make a good 250 for yls but I don't think i'm gonna waste my money applying to the longest long shot in the world.

[NU_Jet55]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

1. You should be reporting all losses/winnings to the feds. There are certain ways to do this that are better than others. I would hope if you've been playing poker semi-professionally that you are well aware of the various methods.
2. Casinos are only required to report tournament winnings over $5,000, and generally (every casino ever), this is all they report.

How have you played any sort of professional poker and not know this?