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I am withdrawing from a local TTT. I am going to retake the LSAT to either get a full ride there or an admittance to the nearby T14. Should I mention that I am retaking the LSAT in the withdraw letter or just simply tell them I am withdrawing? What's the conventional wisdom?

seeing how there are not too many of us that sit on an adcom...just w/d (I don't think they will care about your reason)

I don't see the drawback on adding some context to your decision.

You could always just add something like the following:

I would like to extend my gratitude for your continued consideration into the Joe L. Schmoe School of Law. Financial and personal circumstances have prompted me to withdraw my interest in attending this program, but I look forward to apply for the 2011 class.

Regards,
Dramaticpaws

Chances are they won't remember you applied last time, but I'm a big fan of handling every interaction with as much care and professionalism as possible. It costs you about 12 seconds in letter composition time, but could make a positive impact.

It certainly won't hurt to explain your reasons for withdrawing. If anything, the minor courtesy could help if you decide to reapply for that full ride.

dramaticpaws wrote:I am withdrawing from a local TTT. I am going to retake the LSAT to either get a full ride there or an admittance to the nearby T14. Should I mention that I am retaking the LSAT in the withdraw letter or just simply tell them I am withdrawing? What's the conventional wisdom?

NO. Just tell them you are withdrawing and be glad you did. No need for professionalism here. Your local TTT could give less than a shit about your reasons. You aren't giving them $$$ so for all practical purposes you are worthless to them.

OliverWendellHomie wrote:

dramaticpaws wrote:I am withdrawing from a local TTT. I am going to retake the LSAT to either get a full ride there or an admittance to the nearby T14. Should I mention that I am retaking the LSAT in the withdraw letter or just simply tell them I am withdrawing? What's the conventional wisdom?

NO. Just tell them you are withdrawing and be glad you did. No need for professionalism here. Your local TTT could give less than a shit about your reasons. You aren't giving them $$$ so for all practical purposes you are worthless to them.

-1

Horrible advice. As the OP said, he may be applying again next year, in hopes of getting some major financial support from the institution. As I originally said, chances are, they won't care/might not know you applied before, but what is lost in adding the context? Seriously, it takes 10 seconds. I can't even believe we're having a debate of whether it's a good idea to maintain good relationships.

I'm bored of OWH, his ilk, and their thinly veiled elitism. Their are plenty of TTT schools that do fine work in preparing their students and who produce folks that place well within their market. OWH has no clue what the OP's career ambitions are going to be, what he hopes to accomplish or anything about the OP.

Your professional network starts now. No reason to poison the well, no matter how small the chances are that you'll want/need to drink from it.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to mention your intentions. I recently did this as I am planning to reapply next year, since I scored higher on the June LSAT.

Of the two schools that I withdrew and mentioned my plan to reapply next year, one of them offered me a fee waiver for next year's application and the other school doesn't give out fee waivers (it's a state university in Florida). So, in my case, it certainly proved beneficial to mention my plans to reapply.

No.

TommyK wrote:

OliverWendellHomie wrote:

dramaticpaws wrote:I am withdrawing from a local TTT. I am going to retake the LSAT to either get a full ride there or an admittance to the nearby T14. Should I mention that I am retaking the LSAT in the withdraw letter or just simply tell them I am withdrawing? What's the conventional wisdom?

NO. Just tell them you are withdrawing and be glad you did. No need for professionalism here. Your local TTT could give less than a shit about your reasons. You aren't giving them $$$ so for all practical purposes you are worthless to them.

-1

Horrible advice. As the OP said, he may be applying again next year, in hopes of getting some major financial support from the institution. As I originally said, chances are, they won't care/might not know you applied before, but what is lost in adding the context? Seriously, it takes 10 seconds. I can't even believe we're having a debate of whether it's a good idea to maintain good relationships.

I'm bored of OWH, his ilk, and their thinly veiled elitism. Their are plenty of TTT schools that do fine work in preparing their students and who produce folks that place well within their market. OWH has no clue what the OP's career ambitions are going to be, what he hopes to accomplish or anything about the OP.

Your professional network starts now. No reason to poison the well, no matter how small the chances are that you'll want/need to drink from it.

I missed the part about applying again to the TTT school. Nonetheless, your wasting your time even considering such a school and they will do nothing for your professional network. I don't know what OP's career ambitions are - I will absolutely concede that. However, I'd be surprised if OP's career ambitions include: low-paying doc review, being a solo practitioner, being a contract attorney. If those are OP's goals, then great- go back to the TTT J.D. factory. Otherwise, OP will be wasting three years of his life in fierce competition for jobs that cannot reasonably pay the bills.

Anyone considering a TTT law school should check out:
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

While the site is certainly hyperbolic in its tone, the stats are accurate and its sources are legit.

FWIW, I'm a rising 3L at a T20 and I have personally spoken to attorneys at large, midsized, and small firms, as well as government attorneys about job prospects out of my school vs. lower ranked schools. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, but I sure as shit know more about what I'm talking about than 0L, TTT apologists like TommyK.

TommyK wrote:I don't see the drawback on adding some context to your decision.

You could always just add something like the following:

I would like to extend my gratitude for your continued consideration into the Joe L. Schmoe School of Law. Financial and personal circumstances have prompted me to withdraw my interest in attending this program, but I look forward to apply for the 2011 class.

Regards,
Dramaticpaws

Chances are they won't remember you applied last time, but I'm a big fan of handling every interaction with as much care and professionalism as possible. It costs you about 12 seconds in letter composition time, but could make a positive impact.

+1 for sure. Don't mention the retake, because then it sends the message that you think that they are below you. But just mention "financial and personal considerations". Surely, law admisions people understand those who are hesitant to take on huge debt that will take a few decades to pay off.

OliverWendellHomie wrote: I'm a rising 3L at a T20 and I have personally spoken to attorneys at large, midsized, and small firms, as well as government attorneys about job prospects out of my school vs. lower ranked schools. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, but I sure as shit know more about what I'm talking about than 0L, TTT apologists like TommyK.

nobody gives a shittt

GATORTIM wrote:

OliverWendellHomie wrote: I'm a rising 3L at a T20 and I have personally spoken to attorneys at large, midsized, and small firms, as well as government attorneys about job prospects out of my school vs. lower ranked schools. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, but I sure as shit know more about what I'm talking about than 0L, TTT apologists like TommyK.

nobody gives a shittt

Eloquently put. Your avatar is apt.

You're arguing against a point that I didn't make, OWH. I didn't make the argument that on the whole TTT schools were as good as T14 schools at placing their students in quality jobs. (For the purpose of this argument, I'll assume we can both agree what quality jobs means, and I'll agree it's not doc review, contract attorney, etc.) I said there were TTT schools out there that did it well.

Obviously not all TTT schools are created equally, and some are better than others. Typically they're ones that have strong connections to the local market and are geared for people that want to stay locally, and aren't in the shadow of a more prestigious school.

I don't know anything about you, OWH - about your previous career progression, but I've worked long enough to know that whatever career you choose turns out to be a lot more incestuous and close-knit than you initially realize as you begin your career. Do I believe that if the OP doesn't send the additional context it will negatively affect his future job prospects? Almost absolutely not. But the attitude you suggest, if extended to other actions will cause you to find your job search to be much more difficult than your precious T20 and ranking would forecast.

All the OP asked was whether he should provide some context. I'm of the opinion that it couldn't hurt, and could possibly help. As Kchuck indicated, they found out he was reapplying next year and offered him a fee waiver. This is undeniably a material benefit.

That's all.

OP - good luck with rocking the LSAT and targeting the t14. If you fall short, good luck with getting a full ride at the hometown school and graduating with low debt.

TommyK wrote:You're arguing against a point that I didn't make, OWH. I didn't make the argument that on the whole TTT schools were as good as T14 schools at placing their students in quality jobs. (For the purpose of this argument, I'll assume we can both agree what quality jobs means, and I'll agree it's not doc review, contract attorney, etc.) I said there were TTT schools out there that did it well.

Obviously not all TTT schools are created equally, and some are better than others. Typically they're ones that have strong connections to the local market and are geared for people that want to stay locally, and aren't in the shadow of a more prestigious school.

I don't know anything about you, OWH - about your previous career progression, but I've worked long enough to know that whatever career you choose turns out to be a lot more incestuous and close-knit than you initially realize as you begin your career. Do I believe that if the OP doesn't send the additional context it will negatively affect his future job prospects? Almost absolutely not. But the attitude you suggest, if extended to other actions will cause you to find your job search to be much more difficult than your precious T20 and ranking would forecast.

All the OP asked was whether he should provide some context. I'm of the opinion that it couldn't hurt, and could possibly help. As Kchuck indicated, they found out he was reapplying next year and offered him a fee waiver. This is undeniably a material benefit.

That's all.

OP - good luck with rocking the LSAT and targeting the t14. If you fall short, good luck with getting a full ride at the hometown school and graduating with low debt.

Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

This isn't an argument about TTT's. It's about whether the OP should state their intentions are not. In the end, it shouldn't matter much - but I say go for it. When I withdrew from all the other schools I applied to, I told them where I was going if they asked. It just appeared to be the nicest thing to do. In your situation, I think it's a wise thing to do.

TommyK wrote: OP - good luck with rocking the LSAT and targeting the t14. If you fall short, good luck with getting a full ride at the hometown school and graduating with low debt.

Thanks for the well-wishes. I've ordered the PS Bibles and 10 PT's and approaching the test much more seriously than last time: 3 weeks of half-assed studying netted me a 153. A 159 or better should get put me in serious contention for a fully scholly at the TTT (I'll be above both 75th percentiles) and the closer to 170+ the closer to the local T14 I get (my gpa is >median). I'll either pay sticker at t14 or take the full ride at the TTT. If I cannot get a 159 or better, I guess I'll have to put the gun in my mouth.

OliverWendellHomie wrote: Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

You both make good points. It was because of this site that I decided to withdraw and retake for the next cycle.

Anyways, in the end I just said something like "after much consideration, I have decided to withdraw my seat" and did not offer up any details. If they are that curious (and I suspect they won't be) they can ask.

OliverWendellHomie wrote: Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

You annoy me more so than radlaw (and thats tough to do)...you attempt to dissuade TLSers from attending a TTT, yet you arent even attending a T-14 and it is very possible that many TTT's will place better in their respective markets than your glorious institution.

GATORTIM wrote:

OliverWendellHomie wrote: Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

You annoy me more so than radlaw (and thats tough to do)...you attempt to dissuade TLSers from attending a TTT, yet you arent even attending a T-14 and it is very possible that many TTT's will place better in their respective markets than your glorious institution.

Radlaw is annoying. It seems that person always has something nasty/negative to say.

In any case, I completely agree with Gator. A TTT in a small market (think midwest states) can outperform a "T20" in many cases. Of course, people that go to GW or BC dont usually want to practice in Wyoming or Idaho. Haha.

Also, Tim Tebow sucks.

GATORTIM wrote:

OliverWendellHomie wrote: Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

You annoy me more so than radlaw (and thats tough to do)...you attempt to dissuade TLSers from attending a TTT, yet you arent even attending a T-14 and it is very possible that many TTT's will place better in their respective markets than your glorious institution.

It must be nice to live in a fairy land where up is down, down is up, employers think there's no difference between a top 20 (or 30, 40, 50, 100, etc.) law school and a TTToilet, and phrases like "very possible" have some legitimate, objectionably verifiable meaning. Must be your super sweet Kobra Kai headband cutting off blood flow to your brain!

OliverWendellHomie wrote:

GATORTIM wrote:

OliverWendellHomie wrote: Fair enough Tommy. I actually agree that it doesn't necessarily hurt to give context for withdrawing. Nonetheless a TTT is a TTT and will provide little if any hope for advancement. I don't think it was out of line nor out of context to stress this. Anyone who does their research before attending law school should know this. Unfortunately, many of the OLs entering those school are sold on the idea that they will be the rare exception that goes on to make parter in Biglaw since the glossy pamphlet they picked up when visiting the school said Joe Blow Class of '96 did so. To be clear, my motive is not to trash the OP because I got into a better school than he did. My motive is inform OP that TTTs overwhelmingly misinform prospective students about their job prospects, even in the local markets that they purportedly have locked down.

You annoy me more so than radlaw (and thats tough to do)...you attempt to dissuade TLSers from attending a TTT, yet you arent even attending a T-14 and it is very possible that many TTT's will place better in their respective markets than your glorious institution.

It must be nice to live in a fairy land where up is down, down is up, employers think there's no difference between a top 20 (or 30, 40, 50, 100, etc.) law school and a TTToilet, and phrases like "very possible" have some legitimate, objectionably verifiable meaning. Must be your super sweet Kobra Kai headband cutting off blood flow to your brain!

enlightening...must be the Dapper Dan fumes

OliverWendellHomie wrote: I missed the part about applying again to the TTT school. Nonetheless, your wasting your time even considering such a school and they will do nothing for your professional network. I don't know what OP's career ambitions are - I will absolutely concede that. However, I'd be surprised if OP's career ambitions include: low-paying doc review, being a solo practitioner, being a contract attorney. If those are OP's goals, then great- go back to the TTT J.D. factory. Otherwise, OP will be wasting three years of his life in fierce competition for jobs that cannot reasonably pay the bills.

Anyone considering a TTT law school should check out:
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

While the site is certainly hyperbolic in its tone, the stats are accurate and its sources are legit.

FWIW, I'm a rising 3L at a T20 and I have personally spoken to attorneys at large, midsized, and small firms, as well as government attorneys about job prospects out of my school vs. lower ranked schools. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, but I sure as shit know more about what I'm talking about than 0L, TTT apologists like TommyK.

I don't care if you have never been there, go back to JDU. those blogs are worthlessness rehash by ppl who made poor life decisions.. info that is non-unique in anyway