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I am a non-traditional student, and I was hoping someone can shed light on what I understand vs. what I don't understand regarding GPA/LSAT of non-traditional students.

What I understand: Schools give more weight to the LSAT than to GPA for students like myself (10+ years out of undergrad) because the LSAT is more indicative of current academic potential than a GPA that is 10+ years old.

What I don't understand: If the two primary factors in a school's ranking are LSAT and GPA, why would they accept someone with a lower GPA (regardless of how long they have been out of undergrad) if it will lower their median GPA?

fragged wrote:
What I don't understand: If the two primary factors in a school's ranking are LSAT and GPA, why would they accept someone with a lower GPA (regardless of how long they have been out of undergrad) if it will lower their median GPA?

The LSAT makes up a larger portion of the school's ranking than UGPA, so if that person's LSAT is high even with a low GPA it will benefit the school in the rankings.

Schools can take a certain amount of lower numbered students and have it not significantly affect their medians.

While schools want to game their medians as much as possible, they also want students who will be successful and help their employment statistics because all of it is factored into the rankings as well as the employment brochures that help draw students. I would think that non-trads are more likely to find better employment compared to their peers and thus schools are willing to take a slight hit to one or both of their medians to boost their employment stats.

Here is another way of putting it:

Also, it won't necessarily lower their median ranking. The nontrad could just have a gpa further below the median than another applicant who would have been accepted. After all, most of the entering class will be above only one median (those above both will go to a better school).

Mainly due to the fact that school's ranking stats are based on Medians and not averages. Thus as long as you exceed one of the medians, no matter by how much, you help pull that up while once your below a GPA median, the actual difference does not make that big of a deal.

I don't grant your premise that they will give lesser weight to your undergrad GPA. I have heard the rumor but seen no evidence.

KMaine wrote:I don't grant your premise that they will give lesser weight to your undergrad GPA. I have heard the rumor but seen no evidence.

? ? ?

Thanks for the info - it's harder as a nontrad to establish which schools are within my reach. The admissions calculators let you factor in being an URM, but they don't let you factor in being a nontrad... I guess it's very subjective depending on which school.

KMaine wrote:I don't grant your premise that they will give lesser weight to your undergrad GPA. I have heard the rumor but seen no evidence.

I feel that I'm a good case study. I'm way below median in ugpa at every school I applied to and got accepted in. Not 2.9 bad, but you get the picture. I look at LSN and I see a sea of yellow where I got accepted. But my LSAT is at least one point above median at all of the schools I got accepted to, so I suppose that my case isn't perfect. If I had been accepted at Columbia, then I'd be a perfect case study. Damn you Columbia ! BTW, I tend to be cynical about law admissions too (it's mostly about the numbers). But it is hard to come by data here, and I just go along with what is written in Getting into Top Law Schools by Montauk and my own experience.

fragged wrote:I am a non-traditional student, and I was hoping someone can shed light on what I understand vs. what I don't understand regarding GPA/LSAT of non-traditional students.

What I understand: Schools give more weight to the LSAT than to GPA for students like myself (10+ years out of undergrad) because the LSAT is more indicative of current academic potential than a GPA that is 10+ years old.

What I don't understand: If the two primary factors in a school's ranking are LSAT and GPA, why would they accept someone with a lower GPA (regardless of how long they have been out of undergrad) if it will lower their median GPA?

what is a non-trad?

Half of all law students at an institution are at or below median with one (or both) of LSAT/GPA. The folk below median usually have something else going for them. Like being a nontraditional student.

In general, it's not likely that you're going to get a huge "bump" in admissions for being a nontraditional student - there are actually a good number of us. A lot of that "bump" will depend on what you've been doing for the last few years. You might want to overreach a bit on your applications, but make sure that you're also applying to a few schools that would be 'safe' for somebody with your numbers and nothing else going for them.

fragged wrote:Thanks for the info - it's harder as a nontrad to establish which schools are within my reach. The admissions calculators let you factor in being an URM, but they don't let you factor in being a nontrad... I guess it's very subjective depending on which school.

My impression is that it is super-important to have done something significant in those years since undergrad. And you have to give a compelling reason for why you want to, in effect, change careers. Most non-trads do have compelling reasons. Also, keep in mind that although schools are often happy to accept non-trads, it is far from clear that firms share that feeling.

coldskull wrote:

fragged wrote:I am a non-traditional student, and I was hoping someone can shed light on what I understand vs. what I don't understand regarding GPA/LSAT of non-traditional students.

What I understand: Schools give more weight to the LSAT than to GPA for students like myself (10+ years out of undergrad) because the LSAT is more indicative of current academic potential than a GPA that is 10+ years old.

What I don't understand: If the two primary factors in a school's ranking are LSAT and GPA, why would they accept someone with a lower GPA (regardless of how long they have been out of undergrad) if it will lower their median GPA?

what is a non-trad?

It is not a precisely defined term. But someone who is older, or with kids, etc.

I am a nontraditional splitter-

My GPA is way below the 25th percentile for most schools I want to go to, but...
My LSAT is above the 75th percentile for most schools I want to go to

Hopefully the fact that my UGPA is 13 years old will soften the blow.

Regardless of where I get in, the admissions process will definitely be an interesting ride...

What have you been doing for the last dozen or so years?
That will make a huge difference. (feel free to pm if you don't want to reveal the info in public).