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...in the adcomm's eyes. I have been for frosh and soph years...how good of a soft is this?

It's poor at best, others will have been in the peace corps, teach for America, etc.; adcomms won't be impressed. Sorry.

colemf wrote:It's poor at best, others will have been in the peace corps, teach for America, etc.; adcomms won't be impressed. Sorry.

lol wut, no....



d1 athlete is a good soft but it won't get you in anywhere your numbers won't.

law school is almost strictly a numbers game: GPA/LSAT
(for better or for worse)

colemf wrote:It's poor at best, others will have been in the peace corps, teach for America, etc.; adcomms won't be impressed. Sorry.

Not so fast! Although not completely inaccurate, the end advice is bad.

Did you win any championships? Were you captain on those championship teams? Were there any hardships to endure? Did a sport at your school go on probation? Did a coach get fired for doing something unethical? How did these things impact you? Did you run any community-oriented summer programs for the athletes on behalf of the university? Were you a star player who got injured and had to find other ways to help the team win? Did you mentor a freshman athlete who struggled academically? What contributions to the local community did your experience as an athlete allow you to make?

Adcoms value leadership experience, and they don't care where or how you attained it. Think about "positioning". Did your experience make you a leader? How?

It's not about having played the sport; it's about how being an athlete impacted you as a person. There's always an interesting story that can be made out of being a D-1 athlete. In fact, gaining leadership experience in the athletic arena adds diversity to an incoming class, which is what adcoms look for.

EVERY STORY CAN BE MADE INTERESTING AND IMPACTFUL TO AN ADCOM IF IT IS PACKAGED IN THE RIGHT WAY. Remember that.

well said pdaddy. However, even if you do the things Pdaddy suggests, you probably won't be able to make up for how your involvement in the sport likely limited your academic performance. however, if you are a D1 athlete with a 3.8+, I would have to imagine that that would look outstanding.

PDaddy wrote:

colemf wrote:It's poor at best, others will have been in the peace corps, teach for America, etc.; adcomms won't be impressed. Sorry.

Not so fast! Although not completely inacurrate, the end advice is bad.

Did you win any championships? Were you captain on those championship teams? Were there any hardships to endure? Did a sport at your school go on probation? Did a coach get fired for doing something unethical? How did these things impact you? Did you run any community-oriented summer programs for the athletes on behalf of the university? Werre you a star player who got injured and had to find ways to help the team win? Did you mentor a freshman athlete who struggled academically? What contributions to the local community did your experience as an athlete allow you to make?

Adcoms value leadership experience, and they don't care where or how you attained it. Think about "positioning". Did your experience make you a leader? How?

It's not about having played the sport, it's about how being an athlete impacted you as a person. There's always an interesting story that can be made out of being a D-1 athlete. In fact, gaining leadership experience in the athletic arena adds diversity to an incoming class, which is what adcoms profess to look for.

EVERY STORY CAN BE MADE INTERESTING AND IMPACTFUL TO AN ADCOM IF IT IS PACKAGED IN THE RIGHT WAY. Remember that.

thanks for that. yeah, a few of those things i suppose i could write about (but only if the rigor of having that time-consuming of an extra curricular counts as a "hardship"...i.e. 6 am workouts, or practices in the afternoons)

whuts4lunch wrote:well said pdaddy. However, even if you do the things Pdaddy suggests, you probably won't be able to make up for how your involvement in the sport likely limited your academic performance. however, if you are a D1 athlete with a 3.8+, I would have to imagine that that would look outstanding.

however, yes i am 3.8+ (almost 3.9). grades first.

this should help?

I would recommend finding something extraordinary to write about... to me it sounds like your experience as an athlete thus far has been fairly typical of what a d1 athlete goes through. Arguing that it's special on a PS is the same as arguing that you are the brightest and most colorful butterfly in a field of butterflies that look exactly the same. Find a time where you truly struggled (not just physically, but mentally) and how it built character. The above posters are correct about the adcoms looking for leadership ability... character building events do just that because it teaches you how to be an example for others in the future. They eat that shit up.

savagedm wrote:I would recommend finding something extraordinary to write about... to me it sounds like your experience as an athlete thus far has been fairly typical of what a d1 athlete goes through. Arguing that it's special on a PS is the same as arguing that you are the brightest and most colorful butterfly in a field of butterflies that look exactly the same. Find a time where you truly struggled (not just physically, but mentally) and how it built character. The above posters are correct about the adcoms looking for leadership ability... character building events do just that because it teaches you how to be an example for others in the future. They eat that shit up.

The bolded part above is a useful caveat to pay attention to. But again, my advice is to uncover and relate what unique impact your experience(s) had on you...in terms of the way you think, your sensitivity to a particular issue, etc. Maybe your school went on probation and it sparked an interest in sports law because you feel the school got railroaded. Maybe you noticed something unique in that experience because of your studies in a particular major...you had a unique take on the whole ordeal. Or maybe some aspect of your childhood gave you a unique take on things.

If you start to think in that way, you will begin creating a chain between recent events and the rest of your experiences, and then you can let the adcoms know what impacts certain events had on you. You are not trying to cram your life story into a two-paged essay, but you are trying to give the adcom a glimpse into the journey you've been on and how you came to be the person that you are. It's about YOU, not the topic. The topic just allows you to relate the overall message.

All I am saying is, you might write about your experience as a D-1 athlete in a diversity essay, rather than a personal statement. And it can support your application in ways unseen by the inexperienced observer (i.e., TLSers). Rarely are your experiences truly unique; someone else has always experienced something similar. But that's not the point. The impact they have on you might be completely unique. That's the distinction you must make.

Another thing: great writing will do more for an ordinary, seemingly plain topic than will an extraordinary topic do for average or mediocre writing.

Always remember to bring things to the present and look beyond law school into your career. A few sentences about your plan for the future will be good, but don't make that the entire essay. DO make sure that your story rings true. For example, don't talk about your strict set of moral values and then talk about shaking things up in the profession. That will reek of insincerity.

thanks a lot to everyone... espcially you pdaddy i really appreciate the in-depth answer. im taking all of it into consideration for sure. seems like great advice. would you say do that in a PS or a diversity statement or what? im relatively new to the process i guess

also, to help measure the perceived strength of this soft: with a high 3.8x average, what's the magic number lsat wise for the MVP or higher range? (i know what lsp says im just saying with this as a soft..and internship abroad last summer for what thats worth)

allidoiswin wrote:thanks a lot to everyone... espcially you pdaddy i really appreciate the in-depth answer. im taking all of it into consideration for sure. seems like great advice. would you say do that in a PS or a diversity statement or what? im relatively new to the process i guess

also, to help measure the perceived strength of this soft: with a high 3.8x average, what's the magic number lsat wise for the MVP or higher range? (i know what lsp says im just saying with this as a soft..and internship abroad last summer for what thats worth)

You'll still more than likely need whatever LSP says, or very close to it. I was a 3 year D1 athlete, and my cycle went about how LSP predicted (got off a waitlist at one school where it may have made a difference...who knows). It's a decent soft, and if you have a really interesting story to tell it might give a bit of a measurable boost, but it t isn't likely to do a whole lot for you; minus something truly outstanding, law school is almost purely a numbers game. Just the way it goes.

Edit: I also want to note that at T10 schools many, if not most competitive applicants will have a lot on their resume in addition to just a strong LSAT/GPA. Plenty of other D1 athletes, peace corps, etc. Hence I echo the aboveadvice about having a "unique" story, but even then its mainly going to come down to LSAT and GPA (Provided you are not an All-American).

I know a D1 athlete who got accepted to HYS and CC + attending Harvard on fully Scholly.
By the way, he had a 4.0 and got a 180 on his LSAT.

Yay! Another one of these threads.

ITT - People who were athletes will argue endlessly over how valuable it is, the time it takes, and how it makes you a special snowflake.

Everyone else will realize that being able to do something well athletically means jack shit in law school and has no real effect other than a fair-to-nice soft on your application.

Let me put it this way: figure out how to write your story in such a way that people want to read it. Start with an attention getter, for instance this was my opener for my PS (got numerous scholarships to schools within my range, not reported on TLS though cause I'm lazy about that)


“I don’t know what to do about these two delegates.” I said to Dino over a cup of coffee at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square, “they both know their policy but they aren’t communicating and they are actively working against each other in committee and making UCR look ridiculous in the toughest committee here! What should I say to them Dino?” hoping for some bit of insight that will help me figure out how to solve this jam. “You were on my team back in 2007 and I know that you will handle this well. Don’t be afraid to do what must be done David.” Dino checked his watch and then told me he had to leave to meet with some other conference officials and I was left alone at a coffee table in the middle of New York realizing that in just a few short minutes I was going to have to have a talk I really did not want to have, but was necessary for the team, with two individuals who were not just delegates on my team, but also two of my closest friends.

From what Ive taken from admissions research ive done, and knowing how hard it is to play a collegiate sport, especially the more competitive/time consuming ones, not only does it not help as much as it should, but its also pretty evident that adcomms do not understand how impressive/beneficial/and down right hard it is to be a collegiate athlete. it a major oversight in admissions in my eyes.

itsfine wrote:From what Ive taken from admissions research ive done, and knowing how hard it is to play a collegiate sport, especially the more competitive/time consuming ones, not only does it not help as much as it should, but its also pretty evident that adcomms do not understand how impressive/beneficial/and down right hard it is to be a collegiate athlete. it a major oversight in admissions in my eyes.

Well it's not a question of value on adcoms part. The most important thing you have to consider is not what you spin it's how you spin it. I could be incorrect as to the whole, but in my experience, the athletes who apply seem to have this mystic air about the sport they played at the school they played and believe that holds merit in of itself. This has not ever been, nor will it ever be the case. The athletes we remember the most are not the ones who play the hardest, but the ones who have the most interesting stories while playing the best. (Think Magic Johnson, Wayne Gretzky, Babe Ruth, Rudy, etc.)

Just pretend you're Nick Naylor from Thank You For Smoking when you're writing your personal statement if it helps you get in the right frame of mind.

itsfine wrote:From what Ive taken from admissions research ive done, and knowing how hard it is to play a collegiate sport, especially the more competitive/time consuming ones, not only does it not help as much as it should, but its also pretty evident that adcomms do not understand how impressive/beneficial/and down right hard it is to be a collegiate athlete. it a major oversight in admissions in my eyes.

+1. I've heard many things from other lawyers who have also been D1 athletes ranging from: "Oh, it will for sure help you. I'm convinced that got me into Northwestern, even though I was 3 or 4 points less than the median" to "Sadly, it counts as much as doing some campus organization where you meet up once a month for an hour". I, personally, will include my athletic career in my application because I think it really shaped who I am as a person. If the above is the case, the PS will still probably be good but it really in a shortcoming of the adcoms if they can't realize the student athlete has it academically tougher than the average student who spends most of their UG searching out keggers and playing xbox.

On a derail note, what if you were an All American, do you think that would add anymore weight?

pelmen74 wrote:I know a D1 athlete who got accepted to HYS and CC + attending Harvard on fully Scholly.
By the way, he had a 4.0 and got a 180 on his LSAT.

is he ugly? at least impotent?

He's dirt poor if that makes you feel better.

kalvano wrote:He's dirt poor if that makes you feel better.

Not for long if that makes you feel any worse.

kalvano wrote:Yay! Another one of these threads.

ITT - People who were athletes will argue endlessly over how valuable it is, the time it takes, and how it makes you a special snowflake.

Everyone else will realize that being able to do something well athletically means jack shit in law school and has no real effect other than a fair-to-nice soft on your application.

And in this post - an athletically challenged individual who is bitter that someone is an athlete and intelligent.

FWIW - even if adcomms don't give you as much a boost as it is worth, employers love it.

rando wrote:

kalvano wrote:Yay! Another one of these threads.

ITT - People who were athletes will argue endlessly over how valuable it is, the time it takes, and how it makes you a special snowflake.

Everyone else will realize that being able to do something well athletically means jack shit in law school and has no real effect other than a fair-to-nice soft on your application.

And in this post - an athletically challenged individual who is bitter that someone is an athlete and intelligent.

FWIW - even if adcomms don't give you as much a boost as it is worth, employers love it.

Sufficiently ownt.

kalvano wrote: being able to do something well athletically means jack shit in law school and has no real effect other than a fair-to-nice soft on your application.

if your comment is true, things such as time management, competitiveness, teamwork (shall I continue?) are of little value in life and in law school.

kalvano wrote: People who were athletes will argue endlessly over how valuable it is

and there is good reason for this: while some were searching for a keg (and i don't blame people for doing that, i'm just saying..), I was going to bed early to get up for workouts. Disclipline has value.

I'm not saying this should be a mega-boost come app time, but saying there is no value to this endeavor is mistaken.
this was a thoughtless comment kalv.


anyway, to everyone who helped I really do appreciate it. there's definitely some info in this thread I will be taking to heart.

OP: I'm pretty sure you don't even need to take the LSAT. Just stuff a soiled game jersey in w/ your app and you should be good to go...at least at the T6.

MrKappus wrote:OP: I'm pretty sure you don't even need to take the LSAT. Just stuff a soiled game jersey in w/ your app and you should be good to go...at least at the T6.

what a good idea!! Thanks for posting!!!

Like others have said, being a D1 athlete helps in the sense that it adds diversity.

In terms of actually being valued by the adcomms for outstanding achievement, I don't see why anyone who satisfy the criteria (like an NCAA champion calibre athlete) would want to go into law school. Why go through 3 years of torture for a less than bright prospective employment opportunity when you can turn pro at the sport and rake in thousands with endorsement?