Top Law Schools

Hi everyone, I'm new to TLS, just discovered it a couple days ago.

I haven't started my undergraduate studies, but I know now that in 3/4 years I want to study law. While the date for deciding on a college this fall has passed, a slight problem in one school's system caused me to register at another and concurrently the other school fixed the problem, so basically I'm signed up at 2 schools and need to eliminate one, UCSB and NYU. This gave me a little more time to choose.

My question here is which is probably easier to attain a higher GPA? Obviously a factor is what I put into my class, but schools do vary in median GPAs (I haven't been able to find solid stats for either). My major will be political science or philosophy, leaning towards philosophy. Also, at NYU I was put for 2 years into this Liberal Studies Program , which I've read is easier than the rest of the university, until I transfer to my major in junior year. Finally, at UCSB I can finish in 3 years, would law schools take this into account for admissions?

Thanks for the help

oops

Go to the school you like the most.

Law Schools won't care how many years it takes you to graduate.

As far as UCSB vs. NYU goes, I have no firsthand experience at either, but I do have a number of friends who spent 4 years at UCSB trashed on the beach, and emerged with pretty solid GPAs, FWIW.

I can't answer your question, though I think it seems reasonable. The schools can probbaly tell you what their median GPAs are. How much would you have to go into debt for NYU? Sounds expensive. If cost is an issue, I'd certianly lean towards UCSB.

Mrs. Jack Donaghy wrote:Go to the school you like the most.

I like both, what would be the breaking factor is where I can get a higher GPA. I know some private schools deflate, which may hurt my efforts.

Does anyone have the numbers of the average UG GPA? I saw the average LSAT scores on here and they were pretty helpful (NYU leads by 4 points).

BigA wrote:I can't answer your question, though I think it seems a reasonable one. How much would you have to go into debt for NYU? Sounds expensive. If cost is an issue, I'd certianly lean towards UCSB.

The debt is a problem, 100k + travel (from LA) + interest. However, I do come for a low-income single parent home, my mom assures me that I shouldn't worry about the money too much since she has a plan for it.

JonathanA157 wrote: I like both, what would be the breaking factor is where I can get a higher GPA. I know some private schools deflate, which may hurt my efforts.

I'd have thought the private school would be more likely to INFLATE, but I could be wrong. Just ask the schools.

The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

So look at the other factors. Graduating in 3 is nice, since you have 3 more in LS. Pretty cool to be done in 6 vs 7. And the whole debt thing makes UCSB seem like a better bet regardless. Don't forget, unless you do better than the 75th percentile LSAT and GPA you'll be taking on a good amount of debt for law schools (depending on the school of course).

my mom assures me that I shouldn't worry about the money too much since she has a plan for it.

Mothers try not to make their kids worry lol


Hope that helped

BigA wrote:

JonathanA157 wrote: I like both, what would be the breaking factor is where I can get a higher GPA. I know some private schools deflate, which may hurt my efforts.

I'd have thought the private school would be more likely to INFLATE, but I could be wrong. Just ask the schools.

Thats what I read from college forums. I tried calling and all they say "its challenging, but its how much you try"

lietx3 wrote:The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

So look at the other factors. Graduating in 3 is nice, since you have 3 more in LS. Pretty cool to be done in 6 vs 7. And the whole debt thing makes UCSB seem like a better bet regardless. Don't forget, unless you do better than the 75th percentile LSAT and GPA you'll be taking on a good amount of debt for law schools (depending on the school of course).

my mom assures me that I shouldn't worry about the money too much since she has a plan for it.

Mothers try not to make their kids worry lol


Hope that helped

I see what you're saying. NYU has the number 1 philosophy department in the nation, so like you said its difficulty will help prepare for law. I do think the debt is a big issue, since I don't really plan to get into big law, so repaying will be harder.

All of this has helped, thanks everyone.

JonathanA157 wrote:
The debt is a problem, 100k + travel (from LA) + interest. However, I do come for a low-income single parent home, my mom assures me that I shouldn't worry about the money too much since she has a plan for it.

Do NOT take out that much debt for undergrad. Your mom assuring you not to worry about it doesn't even make sense considering you said you're from a low-income single parent home.

I repeat, under no circumstances should you take out 100K in loans for an undergraduate education. You should limit your debt to 20K max for undergrad.

lietx3 wrote:The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

I agree completely with this. First of all, no one has mentioned that in three years your goals may change. Law school is a huge commitment and I would definitely recommend that you consider ALL options before you commit to it (even options that you might not recognize exist at this point in your life, but may by the time you finish college). You should choose the undergrad school that will give you the best learning opportunity. If you love what you're studying, immerse yourself in you educational experience, and are in college to learn, you will have a higher GPA. I often joke about wishing I had gone to a different college so that my gpa might be higher, but at the end of the day, the University I went to offered me so many learning opportunities that it was worth the slightly lower gpa. Besides, going to a tough school helped instill in me the work ethic and thinking skills necessary to do awesome on the LSAT (which definitely made up for my gpa).

Yeah I am committed to learning the two majors I'm considering, I love both subjects and read up on them on my free time. Before coming here I never considered the fact that a harder school will help me in taking the LSAT and studying in LS. This is really a big factor.

hesslerj wrote:

lietx3 wrote:The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

I agree completely with this. First of all, no one has mentioned that in three years your goals may change. Law school is a huge commitment and I would definitely recommend that you consider ALL options before you commit to it (even options that you might not recognize exist at this point in your life, but may by the time you finish college). You should choose the undergrad school that will give you the best learning opportunity. If you love what you're studying, immerse yourself in you educational experience, and are in college to learn, you will have a higher GPA. I often joke about wishing I had gone to a different college so that my gpa might be higher, but at the end of the day, the University I went to offered me so many learning opportunities that it was worth the slightly lower gpa. Besides, going to a tough school helped instill in me the work ethic and thinking skills necessary to do awesome on the LSAT (which definitely made up for my gpa).

Yeah, but lower GPA median doesn't = tougher/more learning opportunities. Just means they set the curve lower.

I think that gradeinflation.com might be what you're looking for. If you scroll down to the bottom of the page you'll find data available for many individual schools, including UCSB and NYU. Please keep in mind that I'm not sure how valid all of that data is and that all of the data is at least a few years old.

Let me also repeat the advice of some of my fellow posters: Average GPA can be the result of many factors. It is best to choose the school where you feel you can do your best work. Minimize undergrad debt whenever possible.

lietx3 wrote:The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

So look at the other factors. Graduating in 3 is nice, since you have 3 more in LS. Pretty cool to be done in 6 vs 7. And the whole debt thing makes UCSB seem like a better bet regardless. Don't forget, unless you do better than the 75th percentile LSAT and GPA you'll be taking on a good amount of debt for law schools (depending on the school of course).

Not quite.

1. Do not graduate in 3 years. Enjoy college, its probably the last fun time you'll have in your life.
2. Don't go to college and get a liberal arts degree. Get an engineering degree or a teaching degree with math or sciences. That way when you can't get into law school you'll beable to find a job.

I remember when I was in high school, I changed my mind every week. I'm sure you will too. The best advice is what I've said above, and do well in college. BTW if you're set on being fancy and such in life, get a bio-medical engineering degree and go into med school.

I've never liked or enjoyed math or science, even though I did good in them in AP classes. Its not my thing.

JonathanA157 wrote:I've never liked or enjoyed math or science, even though I did good in them in AP classes. Its not my thing.

I hope youre good at math/science. English doesn't seem to be your thing.

MrKappus wrote:

JonathanA157 wrote:I've never liked or enjoyed math or science, even though I did good in them in AP classes. Its not my thing.

I hope youre good at math/science. English doesn't seem to be your thing.

BigA wrote:

hesslerj wrote:

lietx3 wrote:The school that has the higher quality of education is probably where you want to go best. Learning to think, solve problems and work hard are important things you need to learn when entering law school (and will help with the LSAT) - plus if you can't do well in a tough undergrad from what I understand you'll be in hell during law school. So that was my long winded way of saying you want to practice working (semi) hard.

Don't make the choice by deciding on the school with the higher median GPA (as that could be a result of many different things).

I agree completely with this. First of all, no one has mentioned that in three years your goals may change. Law school is a huge commitment and I would definitely recommend that you consider ALL options before you commit to it (even options that you might not recognize exist at this point in your life, but may by the time you finish college). You should choose the undergrad school that will give you the best learning opportunity. If you love what you're studying, immerse yourself in you educational experience, and are in college to learn, you will have a higher GPA. I often joke about wishing I had gone to a different college so that my gpa might be higher, but at the end of the day, the University I went to offered me so many learning opportunities that it was worth the slightly lower gpa. Besides, going to a tough school helped instill in me the work ethic and thinking skills necessary to do awesome on the LSAT (which definitely made up for my gpa).

Yeah, but lower GPA median doesn't = tougher/more learning opportunities. Just means they set the curve lower.

Read it again. I never said that lower GPA median = tougher/more learning opportunities. I just said that he should base his decision on learning opportunities rather than what the school's median gpa range is (I never said there was a direct correlation between the two).

http://gradeinflation.com/

NYU Average GPA = 3.41 (most recent stat from 2002, so it is probably closer to 3.5 in 2010)
2006

UCSB Average GPA = 3.02 (most recent stat from 2006, so it probably has not increased much)

If you really want a high GPA, go to Brown University. Brown's average GPA = 3.61 (stat from 2006, highest in the entire country)

MrKappus wrote:

JonathanA157 wrote:I've never liked or enjoyed math or science, even though I did good in them in AP classes. Its not my thing.

I hope youre good at math/science. English doesn't seem to be your thing.

What?

If he is truly from a single parent low income, then he should receive plenty of money based on that. So, maybe that's why his mom says not to worry.

Either way, like the other poster said.... I'd go to the school with the least debt. Yoiu can obtain a great education at either school.

School with least debt. Period.

You can get a good education at pretty much any school. Some will spoon feed it to you, others you will have to do the leg work.

Spend your time in school preparing for a career that does not require a professional degree. College undergrad courses aren't going to help you with law school. Don't waste time taking classes you think will help with law school. Give yourself options. Prepare for something other than law school so that you haven't handcuffed yourself to a path that you find later you aren't interested in or is not an economically smart move.

LurkerNoMore wrote:School with least debt. Period.

You can get a good education at pretty much any school. Some will spoon feed it to you, others you will have to do the leg work.

Spend your time in school preparing for a career that does not require a professional degree. College undergrad courses aren't going to help you with law school. Don't waste time taking classes you think will help with law school. Give yourself options. Prepare for something other than law school so that you haven't handcuffed yourself to a path that you find later you aren't interested in or is not an economically smart move.

Solid.