Which school do you think most frauded the rankings? Forum

[honestabe84]

St. John's rise is inexplicable. Unless it raises the same amount next year, I'd wager they just bullshitted something, especially given their part-time program. Maybe Queens County is more stable than Manhattan and Brooklyn, who knows. As far as NALP is concerned St. John's doesn't traditionally compare with BLS and Cardozo. This could be changing.

This may be the new NYC ranking

Columbia>NYU>>Fordturkey>>Cardozo/BLS/St. John's>>>>>NYDS

I also think BLS has a bad rap as far as ranking is concerned, some of it deserved, but it's alumni network in NYC is just as strong as Cardozo's. Cardozo is given too much credit, it's sitting right where it usually is and perhaps always will be, right in the arm pit of NYC's second tier.

The main problem with St. Johns as I see it is that it's so damn expensive.

Welcome to NYC? St. John's is actually pretty generous with scholarships.

I was really looking at its tuition. Because it's surrounded by so many great schools in probably the most competitive market, I would only consider paying 20k to go there.

[erniesto]

St. John's rise is inexplicable. Unless it raises the same amount next year, I'd wager they just bullshitted something, especially given their part-time program. Maybe Queens County is more stable than Manhattan and Brooklyn, who knows. As far as NALP is concerned St. John's doesn't traditionally compare with BLS and Cardozo. This could be changing.

This may be the new NYC ranking

Columbia>NYU>>Fordturkey>>Cardozo/BLS/St. John's>>>>>NYDS

I also think BLS has a bad rap as far as ranking is concerned, some of it deserved, but it's alumni network in NYC is just as strong as Cardozo's. Cardozo is given too much credit, it's sitting right where it usually is and perhaps always will be, right in the arm pit of NYC's second tier.

The main problem with St. Johns as I see it is that it's so damn expensive.

Welcome to NYC? St. John's is actually pretty generous with scholarships.

I was really looking at its tuition. Because it's surrounded by so many great schools in probably the most competitive market, I would only consider paying 20k to go there.

You could easily achieve that price tag with a decent LSAT score. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years NYC was overtaken by California and Chicago for being the most competitive market. Everyone knows NYC is fucked, but they haven't realized just how paralyzed Chicago and L.A. are.

[WhatTheLawSchool]

You could easily achieve that price tag with a decent LSAT score. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years NYC was overtaken by California and Chicago for being the most competitive market. Everyone knows NYC is fucked, but they haven't realized just how paralyzed Chicago and L.A. are.

DC or bust!

[newyorker88]

St. John's rise is inexplicable. Unless it raises the same amount next year, I'd wager they just bullshitted something, especially given their part-time program. Maybe Queens County is more stable than Manhattan and Brooklyn, who knows. As far as NALP is concerned St. John's doesn't traditionally compare with BLS and Cardozo. This could be changing.

This may be the new NYC ranking

Columbia>NYU>>Fordturkey>>Cardozo/BLS/St. John's>>>>>NYDS

I also think BLS has a bad rap as far as ranking is concerned, some of it deserved, but it's alumni network in NYC is just as strong as Cardozo's. Cardozo is given too much credit, it's sitting right where it usually is and perhaps always will be, right in the arm pit of NYC's second tier.

The main problem with St. Johns as I see it is that it's so damn expensive.

They're so generous though. They gave out full scholarships this cycle like it was candy

[honestabe84]

St. John's rise is inexplicable. Unless it raises the same amount next year, I'd wager they just bullshitted something, especially given their part-time program. Maybe Queens County is more stable than Manhattan and Brooklyn, who knows. As far as NALP is concerned St. John's doesn't traditionally compare with BLS and Cardozo. This could be changing.

This may be the new NYC ranking

Columbia>NYU>>Fordturkey>>Cardozo/BLS/St. John's>>>>>NYDS

I also think BLS has a bad rap as far as ranking is concerned, some of it deserved, but it's alumni network in NYC is just as strong as Cardozo's. Cardozo is given too much credit, it's sitting right where it usually is and perhaps always will be, right in the arm pit of NYC's second tier.

The main problem with St. Johns as I see it is that it's so damn expensive.

They're so generous though. They gave out full scholarships this cycle like it was candy

What LSAT scores were they doing this for?

[newyorker88]

St. John's rise is inexplicable. Unless it raises the same amount next year, I'd wager they just bullshitted something, especially given their part-time program. Maybe Queens County is more stable than Manhattan and Brooklyn, who knows. As far as NALP is concerned St. John's doesn't traditionally compare with BLS and Cardozo. This could be changing.

This may be the new NYC ranking

Columbia>NYU>>Fordturkey>>Cardozo/BLS/St. John's>>>>>NYDS

I also think BLS has a bad rap as far as ranking is concerned, some of it deserved, but it's alumni network in NYC is just as strong as Cardozo's. Cardozo is given too much credit, it's sitting right where it usually is and perhaps always will be, right in the arm pit of NYC's second tier.

The main problem with St. Johns as I see it is that it's so damn expensive.

They're so generous though. They gave out full scholarships this cycle like it was candy

What LSAT scores were they doing this for?

They gave me one and I have a 158. When I went to the BC open house everyone that I met that applied to St. John's got offered full scholarship. I didn't ask them their scores though, that would not have been polite.

[honestabe84]

Are you an URM? I thought that their median was 160?

[Trifles]

LSN has over 13% of people going to St. John's being there on a full scholarship. Basically everyone with a 163+ gets one. Its definitely the most generous NYC law school, I'm not surprised it is rising in the rankings, its attracting a lot of good students wary of taking on debt in this economy. I don't think that counts as frauding the rankings, that's what schools should be doing if they want to improve!

[SandyC877]

If you chose George Washington, what was your reasoning behind your vote?

[pennstatepride]

GW is a legit top 20 school, and has been for quite some time. If anything, the rankings totally undervalued the school last year. If GW were never a top 20 school, and suddenly moved up 8 spots, that's a different story. However, look at the LSAT and GPA medians; you cannot game those #'s, and they unequivocally prove that GW is a top notch law school. End of story.

[FunkyJD]

Syracuse was T2 as recently as 2008. Why are people voting for them?

Also don't understand the votes for GW.

What I ain't buying is Loyola/LA. My impression was that they had miserable job placement in LA; though that's based more on anecdote and firsthand observation in LA than numbers. Maybe Gloria Allred threatened to sue; but (bullshit) * (bullshit) to the thought that Loyola should rank higher than Houston Law Center or 'Nova.

[SandyC877]

Duke claims 100% employment rate according to Professor Brian Leiter's Law Blog. This smells like complete, utter bullshit. I am not sure if we as applicants are supposed to take them seriously.

[shutterbug]

LSN has over 13% of people going to St. John's being there on a full scholarship. Basically everyone with a 163+ gets one. Its definitely the most generous NYC law school, I'm not surprised it is rising in the rankings, its attracting a lot of good students wary of taking on debt in this economy. I don't think that counts as frauding the rankings, that's what schools should be doing if they want to improve!

Also, it appears St. John's 1st time bar passage rate for the last few tests have improved significantly, ranking over BLS.

[annapavlova]

I have a hard time believing that ASU outpaced university of arizona. And also the major jump Davis took in the ranking and the major dive hastings took.


Its going to make next years cycle super competitive. All of these schools that loss rank are going to try to regain it and all the schools that gained rank are going to try to maintain it.

+1 for ASU, +1 for Davis.

-2 for you.

[General Tso]

Check it out...Prof. Leiter has his own list of those defrauding the rankings (Davis, ASU, Duke, Chapman, and Mason are among them):
http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... r-not.html

[swimbrad]

Missouri --> -30

[SandyC877]

"Northwestern University, University of Iowa, University of Utah, and University of Hawaii are the only law schools in the United States to have reported 100% of their graduates employed nine months after graduating"

Strong Fraud

[WhatTheLawSchool]

Are there any of us that still really believe that all the employment statistics are actual law degree related jobs? I sure don't. So of course those 100%ers can say that 100% of their graduates are employed. Some at law firms, some at corporations (including McDonald's), and some are uh..."employed" in other graduate school programs. I take those statistics fairly lightly. Let's face it, if you don't do well in your class, you're not as likely to get employment. Let's just all do the best we can in our classes. That's the nature of this sated profession.

[SandyC877]

From what I understand, the jump in Hawaii's ranking is due to an error they made in last year's report. However, according to Brian Leiter's blog, Hawaii is still one of the few schools in the nation that reported 100% employment within 9 months after graduation. I thought about replacing them with Duke, but what do yall think?

[General Tso]

From what I understand, the jump in Hawaii's ranking is due to an error they made in last year's report. However, according to Brian Leiter's blog, Hawaii is still one of the few schools in the nation that reported 100% employment within 9 months after graduation. I thought about replacing them with Duke, but what do yall think?

I'd probably leave Hawaii in the poll but remove Loyola. Loyola has always been in the 50s-60s range...their drop into the 70s last year was due to USNWR calling them "Loyola Marymount University" in the survey instead of the more familiar "Loyola Law School"

[SandyC877]

From what I understand, the jump in Hawaii's ranking is due to an error they made in last year's report. However, according to Brian Leiter's blog, Hawaii is still one of the few schools in the nation that reported 100% employment within 9 months after graduation. I thought about replacing them with Duke, but what do yall think?

I'd probably leave Hawaii in the poll but remove Loyola. Loyola has always been in the 50s-60s range...their drop into the 70s last year was due to USNWR calling them "Loyola Marymount University" in the survey instead of the more familiar "Loyola Law School"

Considering they dropped so much last year, this year's increase factoring in with the name change seems reasonable that they didn't fraud as hard. (Not that they don't.)