Law clinics under fire from special interests Forum
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Law clinics under fire from special interests
interesting write up in the Times about problems growing with clinics at public universities. Thought I'd share it. Deep pocketed interests making trouble...
One small reason to go to a private school instead of public I guess
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/us/04 ... ol.html?hp
One small reason to go to a private school instead of public I guess
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/us/04 ... ol.html?hp
- kalvano
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Hitting a little close to home I guess.
- twert
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
this is really interesting.
- 1ferret!
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
insidious ....
- soullesswonder
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Silver Lining: obviously students are getting great practical experience and actually making a difference; otherwise they wouldn't be pissing people off.
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- vanwinkle
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
From the Virginia Law Weekly's April 1 edition: VA Attorney General declares UVA Law unconstitutional
It's supposed to be a joke, but maybe we're not too far off after all...
It's supposed to be a joke, but maybe we're not too far off after all...
- jks289
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Yikes. The most disturbing part of that article is the suggestion that privilege doesn't extend to law students working in clinics under the supervision of a lawyer, especially in criminal cases. Privilege extends to medical students at teaching hospitals, why wouldn't the spirit of confidentiality extend to this?
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
While I don't know the answer to your question, I do know that as a lawyer or lawyer to be you should probably actually learn the detail and nuance of those two doctrines before making arguments about their validity. There may or may not be a good reason, it may or may not be that way in all jurisdictions, it may or may not even be true.jks289 wrote:Yikes. The most disturbing part of that article is the suggestion that privilege doesn't extend to law students working in clinics under the supervision of a lawyer, especially in criminal cases. Privilege extends to medical students at teaching hospitals, why wouldn't the spirit of confidentiality extend to this?
Seeing 'the spirit of confidentiality' just makes my skin crawl. Once you start digging into how the legal world actually works, people making these broad glosses over issues (don't even get me started on the average comments re: HCR constitutionality) gets kind of maddening.
- jks289
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
I was making a general observation about the notion that a law student working under the supervision of a professional being called to testify regarding the case. I didn't make any representations about either doctrine, other than to ask if anyone could shed light on the "detail and nuance" of the respective situations. You're obviously brilliant and sophisticated (re: HCR constitutionality, etc ) so I can imagine how it must pain your intellect to see someone gloss over issues by not using adequately precise language on internet message boards.disco_barred wrote:While I don't know the answer to your question, I do know that as a lawyer or lawyer to be you should probably actually learn the detail and nuance of those two doctrines before making arguments about their validity. There may or may not be a good reason, it may or may not be that way in all jurisdictions, it may or may not even be true.jks289 wrote:Yikes. The most disturbing part of that article is the suggestion that privilege doesn't extend to law students working in clinics under the supervision of a lawyer, especially in criminal cases. Privilege extends to medical students at teaching hospitals, why wouldn't the spirit of confidentiality extend to this?
Seeing 'the spirit of confidentiality' just makes my skin crawl. Once you start digging into how the legal world actually works, people making these broad glosses over issues (don't even get me started on the average comments re: HCR constitutionality) gets kind of maddening.
- bluebonnet21
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Tulane is private, and it was mentioned too.nymets123 wrote:interesting write up in the Times about problems growing with clinics at public universities. Thought I'd share it. Deep pocketed interests making trouble...
One small reason to go to a private school instead of public I guess
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/us/04 ... ol.html?hp
- existenz
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Yeah that article pissed me off. Basically corporations are lobbying politicians to shut off money to law schools where students actually go after corporate crooks.
Their justification is that taxpayer money shouldn't be going to politically-sensitive tasks such as criminal defense, death penalty, environmental law, etc. I wish someone would point out that law students are paying $45,000 a year in tuition EVEN AT STATE SCHOOLS and thus are not getting paid by taxpayers to do this stuff. If anything, most law clinics are extracurricular and optional. It's part of the damn education.
Many of these lawmakers are just stupid enough to ruin their state law schools on behalf of these corporate lobbyists. Ridiculous.
Their justification is that taxpayer money shouldn't be going to politically-sensitive tasks such as criminal defense, death penalty, environmental law, etc. I wish someone would point out that law students are paying $45,000 a year in tuition EVEN AT STATE SCHOOLS and thus are not getting paid by taxpayers to do this stuff. If anything, most law clinics are extracurricular and optional. It's part of the damn education.
Many of these lawmakers are just stupid enough to ruin their state law schools on behalf of these corporate lobbyists. Ridiculous.
- soullesswonder
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
it's Louisiana and Maryland - would you expect anything better?existenz wrote: Many of these lawmakers are just stupid enough to ruin their state law schools on behalf of these corporate lobbyists. Ridiculous.
- vanwinkle
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
After spending Spring Break volunteering in New Orleans, the Louisiana parts of this article sounded downright ordinary to me.soullesswonder wrote:it's Louisiana and Maryland - would you expect anything better?existenz wrote: Many of these lawmakers are just stupid enough to ruin their state law schools on behalf of these corporate lobbyists. Ridiculous.
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- legalease9
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
One of the many reasons never to apply to Louisiana law schools.vanwinkle wrote:After spending Spring Break volunteering in New Orleans, the Louisiana parts of this article sounded downright ordinary to me.soullesswonder wrote:it's Louisiana and Maryland - would you expect anything better?existenz wrote: Many of these lawmakers are just stupid enough to ruin their state law schools on behalf of these corporate lobbyists. Ridiculous.
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
get used to it, the only way to effect policy nowadays is through special interest. Luckily, there is one for every group, so you just have to be more persuasive/corrupt than your competitors.
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- vanwinkle
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
FUCK YEAH!Nightrunner wrote:AMURICABorhas wrote:get used to it, the only way to effect policy nowadays is through special interest. Luckily, there is one for every group, so you just have to be more persuasive/corrupt than your competitors.
- Cupidity
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Poor fools don't know who they are messing with. All judges were once law students. Anyone who goes after law schools is in for a world of hurt.
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- vanwinkle
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Judges in Louisiana are elected, and are not required to recuse themselves from cases due to conflict of interest to the same extent they are in many other states. Pwned.Cupidity wrote:Poor fools don't know who they are messing with. All judges were once law students. Anyone who goes after law schools is in for a world of hurt.
- Cupidity
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
let it make it to the supreme court.vanwinkle wrote:Judges in Louisiana are elected, and are not required to recuse themselves from cases due to conflict of interest to the same extent they are in many other states. Pwned.Cupidity wrote:Poor fools don't know who they are messing with. All judges were once law students. Anyone who goes after law schools is in for a world of hurt.
- soullesswonder
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
judges who get elected in LA probably weren't good enough students to work in any law school clinics, anyway.vanwinkle wrote:Judges in Louisiana are elected, and are not required to recuse themselves from cases due to conflict of interest to the same extent they are in many other states. Pwned.Cupidity wrote:Poor fools don't know who they are messing with. All judges were once law students. Anyone who goes after law schools is in for a world of hurt.
- vanwinkle
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Which it might and it might not.Cupidity wrote:let it make it to the supreme court.
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Excellent observation!!!vanwinkle wrote:Which it might and it might not.Cupidity wrote:let it make it to the supreme court.
- chris0805
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
Cupidity wrote:[strike]let it make it to the supreme court.[/strike] Try to challenge it as a violation of federal law and remove to federal courtvanwinkle wrote:Judges in Louisiana are elected, and are not required to recuse themselves from cases due to conflict of interest to the same extent they are in many other states. Pwned.Cupidity wrote:Poor fools don't know who they are messing with. All judges were once law students. Anyone who goes after law schools is in for a world of hurt.
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
pretty outrageous. kind of sad when something so important as checking special interest is left to students (although the opportunity for the students is obviously great).
gotta love this:
gotta love this:
because all law school clinics are conspiring to waste funding and subvert the governments that fund them...“Like the hapless Wizard of Oz, the clinics want all attention directed elsewhere, while they struggle mightily to keep concealed their actual use of public funds,” Kevin Kelly, the lawyer for the developer, Sussex Commons, wrote in his brief.
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Re: Law clinics under fire from special interests
This is more than a little troubling. I like the part where they accuse the students of "act[ing] like regulators," because they are bringing valid issues to trial.
I guess the moral of the story is that you can't expect an unfettered education if you go to a school fettered by public money.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I am really looking forward to participating in clinics as part of my legal training, and it's discouraging to see them subjugated to public interests like this.
I guess the moral of the story is that you can't expect an unfettered education if you go to a school fettered by public money.
I know what you mean, but you're being a little glib. These kinds of clinics cannot exist if there is no assumption of confidentiality. It undermines the entire project.disco_barred wrote:While I don't know the answer to your question, I do know that as a lawyer or lawyer to be you should probably actually learn the detail and nuance of those two doctrines before making arguments about their validity. There may or may not be a good reason, it may or may not be that way in all jurisdictions, it may or may not even be true.jks289 wrote:Yikes. The most disturbing part of that article is the suggestion that privilege doesn't extend to law students working in clinics under the supervision of a lawyer, especially in criminal cases. Privilege extends to medical students at teaching hospitals, why wouldn't the spirit of confidentiality extend to this?
Seeing 'the spirit of confidentiality' just makes my skin crawl. Once you start digging into how the legal world actually works, people making these broad glosses over issues (don't even get me started on the average comments re: HCR constitutionality) gets kind of maddening.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I am really looking forward to participating in clinics as part of my legal training, and it's discouraging to see them subjugated to public interests like this.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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