IP LAW Forum
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IP LAW
What degrees outside of law are most sought for intellectual property and why? I know people say engineering/science. Does mathematics fall into this group? Engineering is simply applied mathematics. What about advanced degrees in these fields? Does that help at all or do you just need to be competent enough to pass the Patent Bar?
- Georgiana
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Re: IP LAW
Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc.yellowblue wrote:What degrees outside of law are most sought for intellectual property and why? I know people say engineering/science. Does mathematics fall into this group? Engineering is simply applied mathematics. What about advanced degrees in these fields? Does that help at all or do you just need to be competent enough to pass the Patent Bar?
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Re: IP LAW
"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
- merichard87
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Re: IP LAW
This is not all together true. Yes, math is fundamental to Engineering and Science but there is much more to Engineering and Science than Mathematics. If I put a circuit in front of you could not explain how it is used in a microprocessor. I'm fairly certain that Engineers and Scientists are mostly used in their fields of specialization when they go into IP Law (i.e. an EE would work with circuit and microprocessor based inventions, an ME would work with general machinery) thus a person with a degree in Mathematics will always be passed up for an Engineer or Scientist.
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Re: IP LAW
Math majors can't sit for the patent bar. I don't understand what the argument is over.
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Re: IP LAW
Yea, if you study engineering for several years.yellowblue wrote:"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
- stratocophic
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Re: IP LAW
Maybe not, but IP firms are neither going to train you in physics and engineering nor wait around while you study to gain a physical understanding of the concepts. Mathematics governs the way the work out in engineering problems and provide formulas, but they have very little to do with design. At any rate, you have to have a certain number and type of science courses to be eligible to sit for the patent bar. Thus, most mathematics majors are no good to IP firms. Just because you can understand something does mean that you do or even will understand something.yellowblue wrote:"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
tl;dnr version: what DF said.
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Re: IP LAW
Not only could a math major describe how that circuit works but he/she could tell you how modular arithmetic was first used to develop the circuit. A science major wouldnt be able to do that and an engineering major might or might not be able to. If they cannot then they do not have the mathematical base to learn it in any efficient amount of time should they need to.merichard87 wrote:This is not all together true. Yes, math is fundamental to Engineering and Science but there is much more to Engineering and Science than Mathematics. If I put a circuit in front of you could not explain how it is used in a microprocessor. I'm fairly certain that Engineers and Scientists are mostly used in their fields of specialization when they go into IP Law (i.e. an EE would work with circuit and microprocessor based inventions, an ME would work with general machinery) thus a person with a degree in Mathematics will always be passed up for an Engineer or Scientist.
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Re: IP LAW
stratocophic wrote:Maybe not, but IP firms are neither going to train you in physics and engineering nor wait around while you study to gain a physical understanding of the concepts. Mathematics governs the way the work out in engineering problems and provide formulas, but they have very little to do with design. At any rate, you have to have a certain number and type of science courses to be eligible to sit for the patent bar. Thus, most mathematics majors are no good to IP firms. Just because you can understand something does mean that you do or even will understand something.yellowblue wrote:"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
tl;dnr version: what DF said.
this comment is borderline ridiculous. mathematics HAS EVERYTHING to do with design!
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Re: IP LAW
Computer aided design replaced you bro.yellowblue wrote:stratocophic wrote:Maybe not, but IP firms are neither going to train you in physics and engineering nor wait around while you study to gain a physical understanding of the concepts. Mathematics governs the way the work out in engineering problems and provide formulas, but they have very little to do with design. At any rate, you have to have a certain number and type of science courses to be eligible to sit for the patent bar. Thus, most mathematics majors are no good to IP firms. Just because you can understand something does mean that you do or even will understand something.yellowblue wrote:"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
tl;dnr version: what DF said.
this comment is borderline ridiculous. mathematics HAS EVERYTHING to do with design!
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Re: IP LAW
Do you know what a transistor is?
- stratocophic
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Re: IP LAW
OP: To Wikipedia!Desert Fox wrote:Do you know what a transistor is?
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Re: IP LAW
I've heard the same bullshit from math majors all the time. They don't really understand what engineering is.stratocophic wrote:OP: To Wikipedia!Desert Fox wrote:Do you know what a transistor is?
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Re: IP LAW
Look, the amount of math required for patent pros: Zero. Nobody cares how modular arithmetic was first used to develop the circuit. They care how this circuit differs from the one that came before it. Math is useless for that.yellowblue wrote:Not only could a math major describe how that circuit works but he/she could tell you how modular arithmetic was first used to develop the circuit. A science major wouldnt be able to do that and an engineering major might or might not be able to. If they cannot then they do not have the mathematical base to learn it in any efficient amount of time should they need to.merichard87 wrote:This is not all together true. Yes, math is fundamental to Engineering and Science but there is much more to Engineering and Science than Mathematics. If I put a circuit in front of you could not explain how it is used in a microprocessor. I'm fairly certain that Engineers and Scientists are mostly used in their fields of specialization when they go into IP Law (i.e. an EE would work with circuit and microprocessor based inventions, an ME would work with general machinery) thus a person with a degree in Mathematics will always be passed up for an Engineer or Scientist.
end of line.
- BioEBear2010
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Re: IP LAW
Is OP serious? Math is good and all, and is definitely necessary for engineering, but you can't honestly tell me that a math major, by the very nature of his degree, has a full working knowledge of circuits, software, drug delivery pathways, etc. Just because engineering is applied mathematics doesn't qualify you as an expert in these fields.
Thank you, DF and others, for defending our majors from these math trolls.
Thank you, DF and others, for defending our majors from these math trolls.
Last edited by BioEBear2010 on Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IP LAW
Whoever said he/she would have a full working knowledge of these things? Also you cannot honestly tell me that a engineering/science major would have a full working knowledge of all of these either, or even one of them. That would require actual working experience.BioEBear2010 wrote:Is OP serious? Math is good and all, and is definitely necessary for engineering, but you can't honestly tell me that a math major, by the very nature of his degree, has a full working knowledge of circuits, software, drug delivery pathways, etc. Just because engineering is applied mathematics doesn't qualify you to be an expert in these fields.
Thank you, DF and others, for defending our majors from these math trolls.
- merichard87
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Re: IP LAW
Shoutout to Engineers and Scientists for keeping these Math nerds in their place. Ha!
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- stratocophic
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Re: IP LAW
That, sir, is patently false. Math is the fucking devil.BioEBear2010 wrote:Is OP serious? Math is good and all, and is definitely necessary for engineering, but you can't honestly tell me that a math major, by the very nature of his degree, has a full working knowledge of circuits, software, drug delivery pathways, etc. Just because engineering is applied mathematics doesn't qualify you to be an expert in these fields.
Thank you, DF and others, for defending our majors from these math trolls.
Perhaps not, but we've got basic exposure to their fundamental principles. You have basic exposure to the fundamental principles' fundamental principles, which is worthless. In math majors' defense, someone studying math's history would have (fundamental principles)^3 and could theoretically be even more worthless.yellowblue wrote:Whoever said he/she would have a full working knowledge of these things? Also you cannot honestly tell me that a engineering/science major would have a full working knowledge of all of these either, or even one of them. That would require actual working experience.BioEBear2010 wrote:Is OP serious? Math is good and all, and is definitely necessary for engineering, but you can't honestly tell me that a math major, by the very nature of his degree, has a full working knowledge of circuits, software, drug delivery pathways, etc. Just because engineering is applied mathematics doesn't qualify you to be an expert in these fields.
Thank you, DF and others, for defending our majors from these math trolls.
- merichard87
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Re: IP LAW
Stop arguing about this dumb shit. You can't sit for the Patent Bar. Move on.
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Re: IP LAW
I don't know all the details, but I have a basic understanding of how a microprocessor works.
I couldn't design one, but I could follow someone else's design.
And no you wouldn't be able to follow it by applying maxwell's equations.
I couldn't design one, but I could follow someone else's design.
And no you wouldn't be able to follow it by applying maxwell's equations.
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Re: IP LAW
You've never gone to engineering or math school. Arguing about dumb shit is a past time.merichard87 wrote:Stop arguing about this dumb shit. You can't sit for the Patent Bar. Move on.
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Re: IP LAW
Fair or not, you're useless to both private and public entities for patent pros by the nature of your degree. Yes, you may be able to find a patent pros job eventually (if you can even take the patent bar...I doubt you can) but eng/sci majors will be picked over you repeatedly.
Do you really need an engineering or science degree to do patent pros? That's questionable. Assuming you're of above average intelligence you could probably pick up any patent application and get enough of a gist of what is going on to understand an FOAM and the cited prior art, and respond to it half-intelligently. You probably will not be able to write the application because you simply don't know what the fuck is going on. Nonetheless, the risk of you fucking up in either of these situations is substantially higher compared to someone who studied engineering or science because they have a foundation (which you lack) that acts as an 'common sense' compass. Now, if you go out and get said foundation you would be on the same page as everyone else. Until you do, face the facts.
Do you really need an engineering or science degree to do patent pros? That's questionable. Assuming you're of above average intelligence you could probably pick up any patent application and get enough of a gist of what is going on to understand an FOAM and the cited prior art, and respond to it half-intelligently. You probably will not be able to write the application because you simply don't know what the fuck is going on. Nonetheless, the risk of you fucking up in either of these situations is substantially higher compared to someone who studied engineering or science because they have a foundation (which you lack) that acts as an 'common sense' compass. Now, if you go out and get said foundation you would be on the same page as everyone else. Until you do, face the facts.
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Re: IP LAW
Desert Fox wrote:You've never gone to engineering or math school. Arguing about dumb shit is a past time.merichard87 wrote:Stop arguing about this dumb shit. You can't sit for the Patent Bar. Move on.
I couldnt agree more Desert Fox.
- Georgiana
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Re: IP LAW
Yes, it underlies it, but patents aren't about THEORY they are about application. The whole rule about not patenting abstract ideas is aimed at preventing patenting of equations. Just because you understand the equation of the theory doesn't mean you'll be able to understand and explain the claims of a patent. As others have said, a math degree doesn't qualify you for the patent bar so obviously the PTO doesn't agree with your line of thinking.yellowblue wrote:"Math isn't really going to help much because patent law is about inventions, not mathematical equations and theory. Its all about application, which is what you learn in engineering/physics/chemistry etc."
What in the world. You havent taken much math/physics/engineering have you? Mathematical theory underlines EVERYTHING that physicists and engineers do. If you are fluent in the language of mathematical theory there is nothing you cannot understand in physics and engineering.
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Re: IP LAW
If you really want to do patent law, try getting a Masters in Electrical Engineering. Some school will probably let you. Good luck trying to place catchup though.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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