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Gah!

Don't you kind of have to disclose all of your records? Or are you allowed to send only the good ones?

Also, two semesters is a freaking year of a four year degree. Are you seriously saying that doesn't count?

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Yes law schools check for this sort of thing.

Are you honestly even questioning whether or not this should be reflected into your GPA? Yeah if I could only count the classes that I did good in I would have a 4.0. Hell if I could only count the questions that I got right on the LSAT I would have a 180.

On your UG transcript you'll have a marker that says TR, which means transfer. They'll know those grades are somewhere.

Everything said so far has been true. And not only is this something that LSAC would find out about, but it is something you really wouldn't even want to get away with. Imagine the FAIL your life would become if you spent 3 years and presumably over 100k only to sit in front a C&F board and not be admitted to the bar over lack of disclose/dishonesty in your application process. That would be a pretty lame way to have that dream crushed. Just take the hit on your LSAC GPA; you will by no means be the first.

voiidd wrote:If the credit counts towards your degree, then it counts towards your LSAC GPA.. to my understanding at least.

It doesn't matter if it counts towards your degree or not. ANY college classes taken before you receive your first Bachelors degree counts towards your LSAC GPA.

Yes you all make sense, excuse my venting here. I realize that it's a fourth of a 4-year degree but I took a year off to work in government and when I came back I was kicking all kinds of ass.

I'm just sore at the moment about taking this hit, I thought I was doing so well. This thought was substantiated by my grades the last three years... but now this makes me look like every other slacker out there applying to law school. It just feels like a major letdown.

Of course I wouldn't want to subject myself to the C&F failure that not disclosing this would inevitably bring, just wishful thinking.

I was in the exact same situation.

Suck it up and nail the lsat. At some point you can't erase the past anymore, and you just have to live with bad decisions. Tons of others people have done it.

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This is the part where you learn that life isn't fair. It sucks, but that's the way it is. You didn't do well in CC and now it has come back to bite you in the ass. Its painful, I know.
Just think of it this way: You could be in the US illegally because your parents smuggled you in as an infant (and no one told you that you are here illegally), and because you are here illegally you can't get any federal loans for college. See? Your problem isn't so bad.

/that didn't happen to me

Mr. Pablo wrote:This is the part where you learn that life isn't fair. It sucks, but that's the way it is. You didn't do well in CC and now it has come back to bite you in the ass. Its painful, I know.
Just think of it this way: You could be in the US illegally because your parents smuggled you in as an infant (and no one told you that you are here illegally), and because you are here illegally you can't get any federal loans for college. See? Your problem isn't so bad.

/that didn't happen to me

A version of this actually happened to me. Not even kidding, lol...

OP, is it possible to file for a retroactive withdrawal? I know its from a different institution but you should try looking into it. My GPA would have been at least 0.2 less than what it is now, if I hadn't taken the chance to petition academic affairs and be lucky enough to be granted a semester-withdrawal. It especially helps if your recent grades are very strong. Maybe you could try updating your LSAC GPA if you are successful?

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:

Mr. Pablo wrote:This is the part where you learn that life isn't fair. It sucks, but that's the way it is. You didn't do well in CC and now it has come back to bite you in the ass. Its painful, I know.
Just think of it this way: You could be in the US illegally because your parents smuggled you in as an infant (and no one told you that you are here illegally), and because you are here illegally you can't get any federal loans for college. See? Your problem isn't so bad.

/that didn't happen to me

A version of this actually happened to me. Not even kidding, lol...

OP, is it possible to file for a retroactive withdrawal? I know its from a different institution but you should try looking into it. My GPA would have been at least 0.2 less than what it is now, if I hadn't taken the chance to petition academic affairs and be lucky enough to be granted a semester-withdrawal. It especially helps if your recent grades are very strong. Maybe you could try updating your LSAC GPA if you are successful?

fooly cooly ftw

You are not exactly unique for having worse or much worse first year grades compared to your final three years.

lostjake wrote:

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:

Mr. Pablo wrote:This is the part where you learn that life isn't fair. It sucks, but that's the way it is. You didn't do well in CC and now it has come back to bite you in the ass. Its painful, I know.
Just think of it this way: You could be in the US illegally because your parents smuggled you in as an infant (and no one told you that you are here illegally), and because you are here illegally you can't get any federal loans for college. See? Your problem isn't so bad.

/that didn't happen to me

A version of this actually happened to me. Not even kidding, lol...

OP, is it possible to file for a retroactive withdrawal? I know its from a different institution but you should try looking into it. My GPA would have been at least 0.2 less than what it is now, if I hadn't taken the chance to petition academic affairs and be lucky enough to be granted a semester-withdrawal. It especially helps if your recent grades are very strong. Maybe you could try updating your LSAC GPA if you are successful?

fooly cooly ftw

This really reminds me of that famguy episode where Peter finds out that he's actually a Mexican national... hahaha...

Mosca wrote:It doesn't matter if it counts towards your degree or not. ANY college classes taken before you receive your first Bachelors degree counts towards your LSAC GPA.

TITCR


As for "how will they know" questions... LSAC will find it if they see the classes applied as transfer credits but don't see a transcript from the transferring school. If the credits were never transferred to your degree granting institution, LSAC may not see them.

However, as Mosca correctly points out - even if they were not applied toward your degree, they still need to be disclosed.

There are education record clearinghouses that will have records of every place you ever attended, even if all you did was withdraw. LSAC might not check the clearinghouses... but I am willing to bet the Bar does. (Actually, I am NOT willing to bet that they don't!) If an institution shows up on the list from the clearinghouse and there is no associated transcript in your LSAC files... you'll be hearing that great line from I Love Lucy. LUUUUUUUCY.... you got some 'splaining to do!

Just follow the rules and include all the transcripts. It's not ethical to try to hide some. And it's not worth the risk.

It sucks to be confronted with past choices in such a mind awakening way. I know I was. My GPA as calculated by my UG is 3.74, and when I was researching schools before actually deciding on law school I figured that this was the number that USNWR used. With my 170 I'd be looking at some great schools. Instead, I'm trying to claw my way into the top 30, and will probably end up settling for a regional school with a partial scholarship.

While I don't think its completely fair because your last 3 years of school work obviously are more indicative of your academic ability than the first, the schools need something to differentiate candidates. Plenty of people get great GPAs their last two years, but its a special candidate that can do it for all 4.

That said, all of the other graduate programs I looked at give the option of calculating GPA from the last 2 years of GPA. I wrestled with this a lot, because I could go to other elite grad programs on a full scholarship given my GPA and test scores. Instead, I'm settling for a mediocre law school for significant $$$, but at least I had to think about actually wanting to be a lawyer, because its not likely I'll get rich.

.

kswiss wrote:It sucks to be confronted with past choices in such a mind awakening way. I know I was. My GPA as calculated by my UG is 3.74, and when I was researching schools before actually deciding on law school I figured that this was the number that USNWR used. With my 170 I'd be looking at some great schools. Instead, I'm trying to claw my way into the top 30, and will probably end up settling for a regional school with a partial scholarship.

While I don't think its completely fair because your last 3 years of school work obviously are more indicative of your academic ability than the first, the schools need something to differentiate candidates. Plenty of people get great GPAs their last two years, but its a special candidate that can do it for all 4.

That said, all of the other graduate programs I looked at give the option of calculating GPA from the last 2 years of GPA. I wrestled with this a lot, because I could go to other elite grad programs on a full scholarship given my GPA and test scores. Instead, I'm settling for a mediocre law school for significant $$$, but at least I had to think about actually wanting to be a lawyer, because its not likely I'll get rich.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, your situation sounds very similar to mine. According to my UG, my GPA is a 3.73... reduced to a 3.26 after LSAC got through with my transcripts.

While I agree that law schools need something to differentiate the truly exceptional candidates, I don't believe the extreme weight placed on GPA is entirely fair. Sure, many will pull various articles pointing to the correlation between GPA/LSAT and law school success...but this is just my opinion.

A freshman in college, probably adjusting to new financial responsibilities as well as the academic change, is often a completely different person by the time he graduates from UG. I'm not saying that a repeat criminal or someone who fails every single class is always capable of such change, but in most cases people seem to mature a lot and find their focus by junior year. I dunno, I'm over it. It was just upsetting and I wanted to vent.

I just started my LSAT prep course and seem to be scoring high enough to where my target score is achievable so I am optimistic about this law school admissions thing once again.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

3.26 really only keeps you out of HYS CCN, and 3.73 made HYS a reach anyway. You've still got a small shot at NYU if you got it, otherwise, you can get NU, Mich, Uva, Penn or Gtown if you get over 170.

Desert Fox wrote:3.26 really only keeps you out of HYS CCN, and 3.73 made HYS a reach anyway. You've still got a small shot at NYU if you got it, otherwise, you can get NU, Mich, Uva, Penn or Gtown if you get over 170.

That's my goal, 170+ or bust. Cold untimed diag was a 162, first timed was a 159. I think I'll be able to get it if I buckle down.

That's reassuring though, about the schools, thanks. I didn't really plan on going t6 anyway, and would be thrilled as hell if I got into t10. Was thinking more like t15, with a keen eye towards UT Law since I live in and love Austin.

Wait, so any college class you take ever counts toward your GPA? I took a class at a nearby college in like my sophomore year of high school. Would I have to contact that college to get a transcript sent over or is it somehow in my record already? This credit did not transfer to my current degree.

cyxdev17 wrote:Wait, so any college class you take ever counts toward your GPA? I took a class at a nearby college in like my sophomore year of high school. Would I have to contact that college to get a transcript sent over or is it somehow in my record already? This credit did not transfer to my current degree.

Yes.

cyxdev17 wrote:Wait, so any college class you take ever counts toward your GPA? I took a class at a nearby college in like my sophomore year of high school. Would I have to contact that college to get a transcript sent over or is it somehow in my record already? This credit did not transfer to my current degree.

Yes. You are required to have that school send an official transcript to LSAC.

It doesn't matter if it counts towards your degree or not. ANY college classes taken before you receive your first Bachelors degree counts towards your LSAC GPA.[/quote]
Does this include college or university classes taken while still a student in high school? This is quite common for advanced high school students & for high school students taking summer session courses at universities such as Penn, Brown, Harvard, Cornell & local community colleges.