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URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict. But success over their career doesn't seem to be harmed at all because firms will hire for diversity and when in the firm they don't under perform.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
Source?Desert Fox wrote:URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
Key is that LSAT is a "good predictor" of how well one does in law school, not of one's career success as an attorney.Desert Fox wrote:URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict. But success over their career doesn't seem to be harmed at all because firms will hire for diversity and when in the firm they don't under perform.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
JordynAsh wrote:Really? ANOTHER of these threads?
+ fucking 1.vyelps wrote:yeah these are stupid. As a current law student, I can tell oyu no one gives a crap about your LSAT score in law school. Here's the secret of doing well- 1. study you butt off, non-stop; 2. pay attention in class; 3. be very organized with your time and study resources; 4. sleep/exercise/eat healthy to avoid illness.
These threads arguing about the value of the LSAT or URMs or whatever else are a waste of time. Seriously- you arent going to change the system. Learn how to work within it.
--LinkRemoved--eudaimondaimon wrote:Source?Desert Fox wrote:URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
Not just a +1, a plus fucking 1, there is a difference.+ fucking 1
fwiw, looks like the guy says it outright at 12:30: the LSAC has an even better predictive validity for AA's than for whites.slider wrote:Very good study: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_xHsce57c
Gratze. That is shocking.Desert Fox wrote:--LinkRemoved--eudaimondaimon wrote:Source?Desert Fox wrote:URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
Page 61 is where the results are found. While it shocking that 51% of black law students end up in the bottom 10%, it is what the LSAT predicts will happen.
I had watched the video, but when he said that I didn't know whether to to take it as meaning the LSAT had a better predictive validity for AA students with respect to other AA students, or rather with respect to the entire class. It's an important distinction that I wish was more clearly communicated.SAE wrote:fwiw, looks like the guy says it outright at 12:30: the LSAC has an even better predictive validity for AA's than for whites.slider wrote:Very good study: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_xHsce57c
Desert Fox,Desert Fox wrote: --LinkRemoved--
Page 61 is where the results are found. While it shocking that 51% of black law students end up in the bottom 10%, it is what the LSAT predicts will happen.
The thing is, the LSAT correlates more directly to bar passage rate than grades, because grades are also dependent on the level of competition (including the LSAT scores of your peers). So while AAs do poorly in classes at these schools, their LSAT scores are still sufficiently high enough to predict that they will still pass the bar and thus be able to be successful lawyers.SAE wrote:fwiw, looks like the guy says it outright at 12:30: the LSAC has an even better predictive validity for AA's than for whites.slider wrote:Very good study: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_xHsce57c
wow you fail at being subtlehotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
fl0w wrote:Key is that LSAT is a "good predictor" of how well one does in law school, not of one's career success as an attorney.Desert Fox wrote:URMs as a group do as well as their LSAT would predict. But success over their career doesn't seem to be harmed at all because firms will hire for diversity and when in the firm they don't under perform.hotdoglaw wrote:If the LSAT correlates to the success an applicant will have in law school and, as can be seen by looking at nearly any chart on LSN, URMs are often admitted with a far lower LSAT score than other applicants, does this not result in URMs being placed in an environment where they will have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged?
Also.. i don't see how you actually care about the answer to your question. If you are not URM, then why would you care if a section of your class is at a disadvantage. it makes things advantageous for you. And if, in fact, they are not disadvantaged, then I guess you have to work hard. Which is what you should have been planning to do anyway.
Opinion time: as a URM, I would argue that URMs are placed into an environment where they may have a lot of difficulty succeeding and be seriously disadvantaged the day they come out of the womb.
That isn't the entire part of it. The LSAT has the best correlation of any available test with one's success in the first semester of law school. The best correlation of success as a law student over the three years is success in the first semester of law school.ValiantVic wrote:From what I heard from the Dean at NU the LSAT has a good correlation with one's success in the first semester of law school, that's it. It can't even be projected to one's law school career and of course obviously wouldn't have any bearing on one's career as an attorney.
Just curious, what other tests are there?Kakarot wrote:That isn't the entire part of it. The LSAT has the best correlation of any available test with one's success in the first semester of law school. The best correlation of success as a law student over the three years is success in the first semester of law school.ValiantVic wrote:From what I heard from the Dean at NU the LSAT has a good correlation with one's success in the first semester of law school, that's it. It can't even be projected to one's law school career and of course obviously wouldn't have any bearing on one's career as an attorney.
huge difference! lolscionb4 wrote:Not just a +1, a plus fucking 1, there is a difference.+ fucking 1