Georgetown 3L Taking Questions Forum

[ChiSoxinDC]

I found this site helpful when I was making my law school decision about three years ago, so I wanted to come back and offer my insight. Fire away!

[Flanker1067]

How about the obvious one, how are the job prospects for you and your classmates right now?

[jdhopeful11]

As far as admission is concerned - on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "very little" and 10 being "very much" - how influential are UGPA/LSAT scores in determining admission into GUCL, when weighed against all of the other factors that adcomps take into consideration

[ChiSoxinDC]

How about the obvious one, how are the job prospects for you and your classmates right now?

Not great, not terrible. I have a Big Law job that is scheduled to start next fall. Many of my friends have jobs that are also scheduled to start next fall. Others have jobs that are deferred a year. And some, quite frankly, don't have jobs lined up at this point.

This year's 2L class has had it even harder than our class since many firms tried to honor the commitments that they made to the 3L class before the economy really tanked.

I don't know exact statistics, but I can tell you that people who would have had jobs when I started law school do not have them now. The bar is definitely higher. From what I can tell, the effect on Georgetown students appears to be proportionate to those at other top law schools. Public interest job seekers have also taken a big hit as more laid off and deferred private sector associates are now competing for jobs that would normally go to students dedicated to public interest.

Below are the details of an e-mail that we received earlier this month from the interim dean explaining some of Georgetown's programs to aid students in this market:

JOBS 2010 INITIATIVE

Post-Graduation Fellowships
The Law Center will award at least sixty post-graduation fellowships of $4000 to support 2010 graduates to work in unpaid public sector positions. Students will be responsible for finding a qualifying position, with assistance from the Office of Public Interest and Community Service (OPICS) and the Office of Career Services (OCS). More information and application details will be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

EJF
Although we expect an increase in applications for EJF funding for summer, we remain fully committed to this important program. To that end, all applicants for summer 2010 EJF funding will receive $3,250 for qualifying public sector work. Application details and eligibility requirements will be posted on the OPICS website.

Expanded Research Assistant Opportunities
Working as a faculty research assistant offers a unique opportunity to expand your research and writing skills and to work directly with a faculty member. As part of the Jobs 2010 initiative, the Law Center will significantly increase the number of research assistants our full-time faculty can hire for the summer of 2010. In addition, we will for the first time fund research assistant positions with adjunct faculty who have appropriate projects.

Networking with Alumni and Others
I know you have heard the recommendation to “network, network, network” from your OCS and OPICS counselors. To assist your efforts, we will offer a number of opportunities for you to meet informally with alumni and other lawyers working in fields of interest. Please mark your calendars for the following events:

February 8 - Careers in Government Initiative: Student-Alumni Speed Networking
February 23 – International Careers Meet and Greet
March 16 – Labor and Employment Meet and Greet
April 7 – Alternative Careers Meet and Greet
April 21 – Energy, Environmental, and Climate Change Meet and Greet

We will also be reaching out to our robust network of Georgetown alumni around the country and the world, urging them to agree to provide you counsel, mentorship, and wherever possible, jobs.

Employer Outreach
We have established a new position in OCS of Employment Outreach Director. Abe Pollack has now joined the office in this position and will work with OCS, OPICS, and our alumni office to develop opportunities with a range of employers, including small and medium law firms, Capitol Hill offices, trade associations, and corporations.

[jdhopeful11]

any word on my scale?

i am looking to enter the government sector after grad - fyi

[ChiSoxinDC]

As far as admission is concerned - on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "very little" and 10 being "very much" - how influential are UGPA/LSAT scores in determining admission into GUCL, when weighed against all of the other factors that adcomps take into consideration

That is hard to say without being part of the admissions committee, but my impression is that UGPA/LSAT are very influential, but can be overcome by "soft" factors. Your best bet on this one is probably to look at the spreads on LSN.

[ChiSoxinDC]

any word on my scale?

i am looking to enter the government sector after grad - fyi

I wouldn't venture to guess here. You can find the 1L class stats at this site: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions/QuickFacts.htm

[jdhopeful11]

As far as admission is concerned - on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "very little" and 10 being "very much" - how influential are UGPA/LSAT scores in determining admission into GUCL, when weighed against all of the other factors that adcomps take into consideration

That is hard to say without being part of the admissions committee, but my impression is that UGPA/LSAT are very influential, but can be overcome by "soft" factors. Your best bet on this one is probably to look at the spreads on LSN.

Thanks. I know that questions like these must be so incredibly annoying, but I couldn't resist asking.

The problem with LSN is it provides statistics on only a small portion of applicants, so it doesn't provide much help for non-traditional candidates.

[broker02]

Do you think anyone with a non-traditional socioeconomic background (i.e. first in the family to go to college, financial circumstances, etc.) would have any better of a shot than anyone else if that is included in the PS? This of course assumes the applicant has decent numbers and decent softs.

[ChiSoxinDC]

Do you think anyone with a non-traditional socioeconomic background (i.e. first in the family to go to college, financial circumstances, etc.) would have any better of a shot than anyone else if that is included in the PS? This of course assumes the applicant has decent numbers and decent softs.

I don't think it would hurt at any school, Georgetown included. We certainly have students from diverse backgrounds, but how much of a factor (if any) that played in their admissions, I really don't know.

[newyorker88]

How is the housing there? Is it hard to find? expensive? were you able to live fairly close to campus?

[ChiSoxinDC]

How is the housing there? Is it hard to find? expensive? were you able to live fairly close to campus?

The law school is near two Red Line Metro stations, so housing isn't too hard to find. While DC is an expensive city, if you are dedicated to finding a decent place at a modest price you generally can.

Georgetown offers on-campus housing to 1Ls in Gewirz which is not glamorous, but extremely convenient. The units are suite style, with a shared kitchen/living areas and between one and three individual bedrooms.

There are several newer apartment buildings a short walk from campus, but these are generally pretty expensive. Many students live on Capitol Hill, which is about a 15-20 minute walk from campus. You can find a row house there to share that would be fairly reasonably priced. Other students live off the Metro in DC, Virginia, and Maryland.

I worked full time in DC before starting at Georgetown (in the full time program), so I already had housing in Arlington that I stayed in for law school.

[johndhi]

Have you received any scholarship/merit-based aid while attending?

Did you participate in any clinics?

Are you looking forward to your job? Any idea what you'll be doing?

What percentile were you in your class? Or class rank or whatever they do.

edit: and how hard was it to gain that class rank? did you feel like you outworked others, what was the level of competition? please comment on how hard it would be to do well

last edit: I went to a big university and I'd say there wasn't a lot of "hand holding" for the students, ie encouraging adn helping them to get internships or research opportunities or whatever. It seems to me that GULC does a lot to try to help the student out and I assume the students are pretty interested in this sort of thing already themselves - any idea how it compares to other TLS in this regard? maybe one more - what were the true benefits of location in DC?

[galahad85]

Public interest job seekers have also taken a big hit as more laid off and deferred private sector associates are now competing for jobs that would normally go to students dedicated to public interest.

This worries me. If I decide to go to Georgetown, it will be because of my interest in public interest/government work. From what you've seen, what kind of class rank is now needed to land the more competitive federal jobs? Also, how do GULC students fare when it comes to externships or summer jobs in major agencies (say, the State Department or DOJ)? I'd imagine that getting this kind of experience would be crucial to setting the truly dedicated applicants apart from those who just missed biglaw and are using government as a backup.

[ChiSoxinDC]

Have you received any scholarship/merit-based aid while attending?

Yes, I received a partial scholarship to attend. This played into (but was not the sole factor in) my decision to attend Georgetown over other higher ranked universities (some of which also offered money).

Did you participate in any clinics?

Yes, I am currently in a clinic. I would highly recommend trying to do a clinic while you are at Georgetown. There are two theories about how to approach clinics, and I think both make sense. One is to identify a clinic that corresponds with what you want to do and use it as an opportunity to develop skills in that area. The other is to find something that you probably will not do (or at least not early in your career) and get that experience while you can.

Are you looking forward to your job? Any idea what you'll be doing?

I will be working at a large DC-based law firm (in the DC office). I am very much looking forward to it (but not so much to the bar).

What percentile were you in your class? Or class rank or whatever they do.

Just inside the top 10%.

edit: and how hard was it to gain that class rank? did you feel like you outworked others, what was the level of competition? please comment on how hard it would be to do well

It is really hard to say for two reasons. First, like anything else, some students have to work really hard to succeed in law school while others can work a bit less and get by off their intelligence. Second, law grades are somewhat subjective, so there is a bit of a game to it. My strategy has been to keep up with the reading through the semester and then really dedicate myself to "figuring it all out" in the two weeks or so leading up to finals. The level of competition was good enough that I always felt that there was someone working harder and tried to use that to push me when I would get lazy, but in my experience it has been friendly rather than cut-throat.

I'll also say that I have been active in organizations both in and out of school during my time at Georgetown and still been able to maintain a quite respectable GPA.

last edit: I went to a big university and I'd say there wasn't a lot of "hand holding" for the students, ie encouraging adn helping them to get internships or research opportunities or whatever. It seems to me that GULC does a lot to try to help the student out and I assume the students are pretty interested in this sort of thing already themselves - any idea how it compares to other TLS in this regard? maybe one more - what were the true benefits of location in DC?

University support - it is definitely there. There is everything from section tutors your first year to academic advisors to career services (in two offices, one for private sector and one for public interest). While the support is there, no one is forcing you to meet with your career counselor. We get regular e-mails about various opportunities and encouraging us to meet with our counselors, but at the end of the day, it's up to the student to take advantage of those resources. I found them above average, but I think it does depend on who you are working with. Still, in talking to others (including a friend who transferred after 1L year) I think it's fair to say that they compare favorably to the services offered by peer schools.

I think the location in DC is really important if that interests you. There many opportunities that match those in other cities, but on top of that we have the Federal Government. While that sounds obvious, it opens so many doors - from watching arguments at the Supreme Court to interning anywhere from agencies to Congress to the White House. Plus you have a varied experience due to the number of adjuncts who teach at Georgetown while working nearby. Adjuncts bring a different perspective from longtime professors, so it is nice to have the mix. Finally, we get some pretty interesting guests in seminar classes!

[ChiSoxinDC]

Public interest job seekers have also taken a big hit as more laid off and deferred private sector associates are now competing for jobs that would normally go to students dedicated to public interest.

This worries me. If I decide to go to Georgetown, it will be because of my interest in public interest/government work. From what you've seen, what kind of class rank is now needed to land the more competitive federal jobs? Also, how do GULC students fare when it comes to externships or summer jobs in major agencies (say, the State Department or DOJ)? I'd imagine that getting this kind of experience would be crucial to setting the truly dedicated applicants apart from those who just missed biglaw and are using government as a backup.

It should worry you. By that I don't mean to say that you shouldn't go to Georgetown, but that you should go to any school with your eyes open about what you are getting into. The good news (if you can say that) is that (1) we are in the midst of one of the worst markets in legal history and many students are still well on their way to the careers they desire, and (2) it can only get better before you get out. And I should add that Georgetown students are still in relatively good shape in an otherwise difficult market.

It's hard to say what rank you need, but I know plenty of people who will be going into the DOJ honors program next year. Most are probably in the top 1/3 of the class or higher, but those are among the most prestigious government jobs for a law school graduate. GULC students fare very well for summer internships/externships. We have the advantage over the non-DC schools of having the ability to take internships/externships during the semester as well, when they are far less competitive (since you don't have students from every school in the country competing for the select few positions). The OPICS office (public interest career support) is really fantastic and helps you plan a strategy and obtain the positions that you are looking for both during and after law school. Because they focus just on public interest jobs, they have time to make connections and really offer specialized knowledge.

[galahad85]

Public interest job seekers have also taken a big hit as more laid off and deferred private sector associates are now competing for jobs that would normally go to students dedicated to public interest.

This worries me. If I decide to go to Georgetown, it will be because of my interest in public interest/government work. From what you've seen, what kind of class rank is now needed to land the more competitive federal jobs? Also, how do GULC students fare when it comes to externships or summer jobs in major agencies (say, the State Department or DOJ)? I'd imagine that getting this kind of experience would be crucial to setting the truly dedicated applicants apart from those who just missed biglaw and are using government as a backup.

It should worry you. By that I don't mean to say that you shouldn't go to Georgetown, but that you should go to any school with your eyes open about what you are getting into. The good news (if you can say that) is that (1) we are in the midst of one of the worst markets in legal history and many students are still well on their way to the careers they desire, and (2) it can only get better before you get out. And I should add that Georgetown students are still in relatively good shape in an otherwise difficult market.

It's hard to say what rank you need, but I know plenty of people who will be going into the DOJ honors program next year. Most are probably in the top 1/3 of the class or higher, but those are among the most prestigious government jobs for a law school graduate. GULC students fare very well for summer internships/externships. We have the advantage over the non-DC schools of having the ability to take internships/externships during the semester as well, when they are far less competitive (since you don't have students from every school in the country competing for the select few positions). The OPICS office (public interest career support) is really fantastic and helps you plan a strategy and obtain the positions that you are looking for both during and after law school. Because they focus just on public interest jobs, they have time to make connections and really offer specialized knowledge.

Sorry, I missed this earlier. Thank you for the response.

This should be moved to the "Discuss Your Law School" forum so more people can see it.

[beef wellington]

Thanks for all the helpful information.

[Lawl Shcool]

How have transfers faired in the recent job market?

[ChiSoxinDC]

How have transfers faired in the recent job market?

I can only speak anecdotally and say that I know of a few transfer students who have post-graduate employment. But I have no idea how they fare statistically compared to the rest of the population.

[lawisizzlin]

Hi, thanks for taking questions! Do you know if scholarship money is re-evaluated after the first year? For instance, if you perform extremely well your first year, are you likely to get a larger scholarship/grant to help pay for the second year? I know this is the practice at some schools so I'm curious about Georgetown.

[ChiSoxinDC]

Hi, thanks for taking questions! Do you know if scholarship money is re-evaluated after the first year? For instance, if you perform extremely well your first year, are you likely to get a larger scholarship/grant to help pay for the second year? I know this is the practice at some schools so I'm curious about Georgetown.

Not by default. I am not sure if they would re-evaluate on request, but I do know that Georgetown's scholarship funds are fairly limited (given Georgetown's relatively small endowment), so the school tends to be more stingy than others. I would try to get as much as you can up front - there isn't much incentive for them to review your scholarship once you are enrolled.