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Thought this would drive everyone NUTS...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

Read this on ATL yesterday. He's already done more from prison than most of us will do in our legal careers.

Michigan: even retarded bank robbers get in

I wouldn't want him in my section.

TipTravHoot wrote:Read this on ATL yesterday. He's already done more from prison than most of us will do in our legal careers.

Agreed. I guess some people just "have it". When I read this, I laughed thinking about the agonies some people go to deciding whether or not to disclose minor traffic infractions on their apps.

For you future Wolverines, all of the hype will surround a former (failed) bank robber named Shon Hopwood, who, while incarcerated, became an expert at preparing Writs of Certiorari for wronged inmates, winning numerous reversals, appeals and SCOTUS hearings.

He was so good that renowned Michigan Law Professor Richard Friedman has lobbied the adcom there to "save this former convict a spot. This is not the first time Michigan law has done this for former convicts. In fact, many of the nation's elite schools have a guilty pleasure: admitting former convicts.

Weigh in. Are you impressed? And, by whom? Are you surprized? The article is down below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

My opinion? I believe in second chances. I am impressed with Mr. Hopwood and believe he and anyone who appears rehabilitated should be able to go to school wherever he wants to, and wherever he can get admitted. But his route to michigan Law has been rather circuitous, to say the least. Well, whatever it takes.

But if this guy winds up on Wall Street ripping off investors...

By the way, I really don't have time to be on TLS, but just had to post this. Have fun!

Great article, now I wish I was going to Michigan.

shutterbug wrote:

TipTravHoot wrote:Read this on ATL yesterday. He's already done more from prison than most of us will do in our legal careers.

Agreed. I guess some people just "have it". When I read this, I laughed thinking about the agonies some people go to deciding whether or not to disclose minor traffic infractions on their apps.

As for this response, I also agree. And the vast majority of people who have crimes and violations obviously have nothing like Mr. Hopwood's accomplishments to offset them. So the issue is much more complicated.

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am
Posts: 252

PDaddy wrote: By the way, I really don't have time to be on TLS, but just had to post this. Have fun!

Lol.

Oh yeah, and he should be able to apply and get in wherever they will take him. Not all schools will be as open-minded, though, considering the ethics of the profession.

I would say he has to take the LSAT before getting reserved, but I'm sure hes been punished enough.

toolshed wrote:Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am
Posts: 252

PDaddy wrote: By the way, I really don't have time to be on TLS, but just had to post this. Have fun!

Lol.

I admit, the stuff is addictive. But I really did have to post this. G'bye!

PDaddy wrote:I POSTED A POLL ON THIS TOPIC

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=107290

shutterbug wrote:

TipTravHoot wrote:Read this on ATL yesterday. He's already done more from prison than most of us will do in our legal careers.

Agreed. I guess some people just "have it". When I read this, I laughed thinking about the agonies some people go to deciding whether or not to disclose minor traffic infractions on their apps.

As for this response, the vast majority of people who have crimes and violations have nothing like Mr. Hopwood's accomplishments to offset them. So the issue is much more complicated.

Yes - you are right. But I also don't mean to diminish the seriousness and complications of any past issues or infractions anyone else is dealing with.

good taste in music. full ride.

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

It does seem that this person did indeed end up benefiting from what was supposed to be his punishment (though perhaps not benefited overall; prison can be terrible, I hear).

I guess an optimistic way of thinking about it is as follows: the purpose of our system of punishment is to rehabilitate criminals and provide them with moral education (due to their moral failings), and indeed in this case the criminal was rehabilitated and morally educated. So the system of criminal justice worked well here. If all instances were to go so well, we would live in a much better society.

GATORTIM wrote:Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

Cool story, I would love to have him in my section.

jks289 wrote:

GATORTIM wrote:Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

define violent. Taken directly from the article

"No one was hurt in Mr. Hopwood’s bank robberies, but he and his accomplices “scared the hell out of the poor bank tellers,” Judge Richard G. Kopf of Federal District Court in Lincoln, Neb., said in sentencing him to prison in 1999.

I think you would have an entirely different take on the article if you or a family member were on the working-end of Mr. Hopwood's 45 cal.

GATORTIM wrote:Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

boo hoo.

GATORTIM wrote:

jks289 wrote:

GATORTIM wrote:Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

define violent. Taken directly from the article

"No one was hurt in Mr. Hopwood’s bank robberies, but he and his accomplices “scared the hell out of the poor bank tellers,” Judge Richard G. Kopf of Federal District Court in Lincoln, Neb., said in sentencing him to prison in 1999.

I think you would have an entirely different take on the article if you or a family member were on the working-end of Mr. Hopwood's 45 cal.

Yes, but he served his time. Should he no longer be allowed to integrate back in society? Moreover, he obviously has the skills and ability that could greatly improve our society--while possessing a unique lens which should enable him to percieve things that 'those who did it right' cannot.

GATORTIM wrote:

jks289 wrote:

GATORTIM wrote:Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

define violent. Taken directly from the article

"No one was hurt in Mr. Hopwood’s bank robberies, but he and his accomplices “scared the hell out of the poor bank tellers,” Judge Richard G. Kopf of Federal District Court in Lincoln, Neb., said in sentencing him to prison in 1999.

I think you would have an entirely different take on the article if you or a family member were on the working-end of Mr. Hopwood's 45 cal.

"Scaring the hell out of people" is not the same as being violent, legally or morally. For all legal and ethical purposes, he is a non-violent offender.

I seriously hope this doesn't happen, but if it does I'll definitely search for him on the first day of classes and pants him or something.

Rawlsian wrote: Yes, but he served his time. Should he no longer be allowed to integrate back in society? Moreover, he obviously has the skills and ability which could greatly improve our society, and he possesses a unique lens which should enable him to see things that 'those who did it right' cannot.

I agree that he has paid his debt to society and has gained useful knowledge at the expense of taxpayers while in prison. I just think that the seriousness of his crimes are being tossed aside in light of his accomplishments. If he was imprisoned for stealing cars or some white-collar type crime then I do not believe I would give a shit, but this man could very easily have taken an innocent life, regardless of his intent when he entered the bank (watch Point Break).

I'm not saying he should dawn a scarlet letter for the rest of his life and he should be allowed to provide for his new family. However, I just don't think awarding the man a seat at a prestigious law school at the further expense of tax-payers and another qualified, law abiding, applicant is right/fair/just/whatever. Either way it is not my call and will not impact my life...I'm just sayin'.

jks289 wrote: "Scaring the hell out of people" is not the same as being violent, legally or morally. For all legal and ethical purposes, he is a non-violent offender.

"The definition of violent crime suggests that violence is a behavior by persons, against persons or property that intentionally threatens, attempts, or actually inflicts physical harm. The seriousness of the injuries to the victim(s), whether or not guns or other weapons were used and/or whether or not the alleged perpetrator has a criminal record will alter the crime's seriousness."

GATORTIM wrote:

Rawlsian wrote: Yes, but he served his time. Should he no longer be allowed to integrate back in society? Moreover, he obviously has the skills and ability which could greatly improve our society, and he possesses a unique lens which should enable him to see things that 'those who did it right' cannot.

I agree that he has paid his debt to society and has gained useful knowledge at the expense of taxpayers while in prison. I just think that the seriousness of his crimes are being tossed aside in light of his accomplishments. If he was imprisoned for stealing cars or some white-collar type crime then I do not believe I would give a shit, but this man could very easily have taken an innocent life, regardless of his intent when he entered the bank (watch Point Break).

I'm not saying he should dawn a scarlet letter for the rest of his life and he should be allowed to provide for his new family. However, I just don't think awarding the man a seat at a prestigious law school at the further expense of tax-payers and another qualified, law abiding, applicant is right/fair/just/whatever. Either way it is not my call and will not impact my life...I'm just sayin'.

Do you think people who get behind the wheel of a car while drunk and risk innocent lives (despite the best intentions) deserve to go to law school?