Top Law Schools

.

jonnodotsg wrote:Hi, I've recently put in my applications for this year's cycle and am waiting to hear back from schools, but I cannot help but have this nagging feeling at the back of my head that I might have a better shot at the T14 schools with a higher LSAT score.

I sat for my first LSAT in December 2009 and came back with a score of 166, which is well below my PT averages of 173-175. I don't really wanna make the excuse that I was running a high fever at the time I took the test, which is why I decided against writing an addendum. My LSDAS GPA stands at 3.92.

I was wondering if it would be wise of me to take a year off, retake the LSAT, and apply for next year's cycle? I understand that it would make a world of difference should I be able to achieve a new LSAT score that more accurately reflects my PT scores, but the thought of postponing law school for a year just kinda irks me. FWIW, I did also consider the possibility of transferring after L1 to a better school should I not be able to get in now, keeping in mind all the advice that Arrow had put forth in his article.

Any thoughts, guys?

Retake this isn't even a question.

RETAKE!! With that GPA a 170 will do wonders

englawyer wrote:RETAKE!! With that GPA a 170 will do wonders

This.

Plus, transferring up isn't as easy as it may sound.

With your GPA you could get into some good schools as is. However, if you can bump your LSAT by 3+ points, you're a high probability at most places from Berkeley down. No one can make this decision but you, but there are definitely some serious reasons to consider putting off for a year (e.g. huge scholarships at the lower T14).

If t14 is ur dream then go retake and wait. Transferring is difficult and depends on your 1L. Why not retake and secure t14 in a more probable way

Just to give some more insight, I think whether or not you put off for a year depends on a lot of other factors.

What are your end goals? What can you do during your year off? Do you have a family? Is there a specific region you want to work in? A lot of these questions could push you into going right away. For most people on TLS a re-take is no question, for you it might not be as big of an issue.

.

regarding year off employment, i don't think it will matter that much to be honest for admissions or for eventual legal employment. while you want to fill in that year with SOMETHING, it doesn't have to be a normal job (maybe teaching english in china for example).

26 is a little late, but it also depends on the person. some people are married with a child when they are 26. if you are single or have a girlfriend/boyfriend who is also "career building" at this point in their life, its fine. if you are in a settle-down now or in the near future situation, it can change things.

I am personally going at 26, and its actually only one year above the median age at many places. my girlfriend is much younger though, and we are far from doing the whole kids thing/buy a place/etc.

englawyer wrote:regarding year off employment, i don't think it will matter that much to be honest for admissions or for eventual legal employment. while you want to fill in that year with SOMETHING, it doesn't have to be a normal job (maybe teaching english in china for example).

26 is a little late, but it also depends on the person. some people are married with a child when they are 26. if you are single or have a girlfriend/boyfriend who is also "career building" at this point in their life, its fine. if you are in a settle-down now or in the near future situation, it can change things.

I am personally going at 26, and its actually only one year above the median age at many places. my girlfriend is much younger though, and we are far from doing the whole kids thing/buy a place/etc.

No, for most schools, 25ish is the average age, not the median. Unless you're talking about Northwestern or a couple other schools with similar approaches to employment history, the median is going to be 23-24. The average is 25-26 because of the occasional non-trad 40-year-old.

jonnodotsg wrote:Granted, there are many law school applicants who are my age or older, but I just feel that beginning a 3-year JD program at 26 and then really beginning my legal career at 29 seems a little late. Please feel free to correct me if you think my fears are misplaced, but I'm kinda held by the notion that, at this point in my life, every year counts.

Late for what? For whom? Your fears are misplaced. Totally misplaced. The life experience you have (provided you do interesting things between undergrad and grad/prof school) might even make you a more attractive hire. There are lots of 30+ applicants on here (myself included), and it makes me sad to see so many younger folks freaking out about time/age.

If you will have better opportunities with a T-14, wait a year and do it. If you're willing to slight your future career because you couldn't wait another 12 months - and there's no wife/kid/illness/etc demanding you go this year - I think you should reconsider your reasons to go to school. It's late and I can't think of a different way to say that, I hope it doesn't sound mean. But if you can better your future by improving your LSAT, by all means do it.

Hi,

I got a 166 on the LSAT, after averaging 170-172 on my PT's. I have a 3.87 GPA. I had a high fever when I took the LSAT in Sept. and I believe it is the reason for my poor performance.

I am not waiting, and here is why:

1. Student Loan Debt begins to run. I have 17k in loans for my UG. If I stay in school straight through law school, I can postpone payments. If I take a year off, I am required to pay them back immedeately and I will have to make payments before law school.

2. I have no real career lined up. Perhaps if you are non-traditional and have a job or a family, but as a student straight out of UG, ITE, odds are I won't find the most productive work.

3. There is no guarantee you won't fuck up the LSAT again. I took it twice, 159 the first time sick with a PT average around 166, second time my PT average was a solid 172, and I took it with the Flu. It happened to me, it can happen to you. A 166 is a solid score, why risk a year of your life on the chance you may be sick again.

4. I'm ready to move on. Sure, outside of my long-shots at UVA ED and Cornell, I probably wont make the T-14, but I'm at a point in my life where I want to be in law school, so what if I have to settle for a top 20? If I go there, do the work, and get top 10%, whats the difference? A T-30 school will get you anywhere you want if you are top of your class.

Cupidity wrote:Hi,

I got a 166 on the LSAT, after averaging 170-172 on my PT's. I have a 3.87 GPA. I had a high fever when I took the LSAT in Sept. and I believe it is the reason for my poor performance.

I am not waiting, and here is why:

1. Student Loan Debt begins to run. I have 17k in loans for my UG. If I stay in school straight through law school, I can postpone payments. If I take a year off, I am required to pay them back immedeately and I will have to make payments before law school.

2. I have no real career lined up. Perhaps if you are non-traditional and have a job or a family, but as a student straight out of UG, ITE, odds are I won't find the most productive work.

3. There is no guarantee you won't fuck up the LSAT again. I took it twice, 159 the first time sick with a PT average around 166, second time my PT average was a solid 172, and I took it with the Flu. It happened to me, it can happen to you. A 166 is a solid score, why risk a year of your life on the chance you may be sick again.

4. I'm ready to move on. Sure, outside of my long-shots at UVA ED and Cornell, I probably wont make the T-14, but I'm at a point in my life where I want to be in law school, so what if I have to settle for a top 20? If I go there, do the work, and get top 10%, whats the difference? A T-30 school will get you anywhere you want if you are top of your class.

The difference is... the OP is applying waaaay later in the cycle.

Cupidity wrote:4. I'm ready to move on. Sure, outside of my long-shots at UVA ED and Cornell, I probably wont make the T-14, but I'm at a point in my life where I want to be in law school, so what if I have to settle for a top 20? If I go there, do the work, and get top 10%, whats the difference? A T-30 school will get you anywhere you want if you are top of your class.

A top 10% student at a T20-30 will likely be a top 10% student at a T14 as well, but the difference in opportunities between the two is huge. Never mind that going to any law school expecting top 10% is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I definitely did not do as well as I had hoped, but decided to commit anyways.

Thoughts that went through my head:

1) Even if I waited a year, there's no guarantee I could show my PT scores on the actual.
2) It's another year of my life and right now I have an "optimal" timeline on my resume IMO. If I had to take another year, I would need to find something to write about during that gap.
3) While it's not T14, the T30's still have brand name recognition.
4) I would be happy graduating from a T30 school, and if my 1L grades are good then I still can apply to transfer.
5) Either way, there are no guarantees of success and a bird in hand is better than two in the forest.

Cupidity wrote: I am not waiting, and here is why:

1. Student Loan Debt begins to run. I have 17k in loans for my UG. If I stay in school straight through law school, I can postpone payments. If I take a year off, I am required to pay them back immedeately and I will have to make payments before law school.

2. I have no real career lined up. Perhaps if you are non-traditional and have a job or a family, but as a student straight out of UG, ITE, odds are I won't find the most productive work.

3. There is no guarantee you won't fuck up the LSAT again. I took it twice, 159 the first time sick with a PT average around 166, second time my PT average was a solid 172, and I took it with the Flu. It happened to me, it can happen to you. A 166 is a solid score, why risk a year of your life on the chance you may be sick again.

4. I'm ready to move on. Sure, outside of my long-shots at UVA ED and Cornell, I probably wont make the T-14, but I'm at a point in my life where I want to be in law school, so what if I have to settle for a top 20? If I go there, do the work, and get top 10%, whats the difference? A T-30 school will get you anywhere you want if you are top of your class.

+10000000
I didn't get any of my aps in until January, and know that if I waited until the next cycle I could definitely bump my LSAT above 170 and improve my school specific essays... but I don't want to put my life on hold for another year in hopes of shooting slightly higher. I'm ready to move on, am excited about finally returning to an academic environment in the fall, and don't really know what I'd do if I didn't.

Sure, I'm still daydreaming about Berkeley and UPenn, but it's not like it will ruin my life if I end up at BU with $$ - it's still an excellent school, and opportunities will exist.