Top Law Schools

i see on lsn that seton hall is offering people with comparable numbers (3.85/162) 35k annually. to me that sounds like a great deal...just curious what your thoughts are? especially in contrast to paying full tuition at schools like fordham, cardozo, bu, bc...

I got the 35K at Seton Hall and here is my perspective on it. I'm in-state at NJ, and Rutgers gave me 18K a year (in-state tuition is 21K), so I would need to pay 3K a year. Seton Hall is 42K a year, so with a 35K a year scholarship, I'd pay 7K a year. So I couldn't justify Seton hall unless they gave me full tuition. With a 35K a year scholarship, I'd say take a look at both schools and see what you like better. Seton Hall and Rutgers are comparable in many ways (rank, job placement, etc), but tuition is where they differ greatly. But if Seton Hall gives you enough scholarship to offset the diff, then you have a solid choice between the two, if you wish to stay in NJ.

did you get 18k from rutgers camden or newark? do you mind giving your numbers?

ixpresxi wrote:did you get 18k from rutgers camden or newark? do you mind giving your numbers?

18K from Newark. Didn't apply to Camden. GPA around 3.5 and 167

are you applying to higher ranked schools? what if you got into a school like fordham or bu? would you consider going?

ixpresxi wrote:are you applying to higher ranked schools? what if you got into a school like fordham or bu? would you consider going?

Yeah, I applied to a bunch of higher-ranked schools. Fordham for some reason waitlisted me, but yeah, I applied to BU and got a solid offer. I applied to Rutgers and Seton Hall because I am from Jersey and am considering going to school close to home.

I got this same offer. . well i think, is your schol. qualified by having to stay in the top50%? I'm wondering, from any seton hall attendees, if that's difficult to do, because i've heard bad things about the curve

Zannie1986 wrote:I got this same offer. . well i think, is your schol. qualified by having to stay in the top50%? I'm wondering, from any seton hall attendees, if that's difficult to do, because i've heard bad things about the curve

I have a friend that goes there that got full tuition and lost it after her 1L year. Apparently they section stack (although they will tell you different if you ask) and a lot of people lose their money.

I got this same offer. . well i think, is your schol. qualified by having to stay in the top50%? I'm wondering, from any seton hall attendees, if that's difficult to do, because i've heard bad things about the curve

Based on what I've seen on this board and others, the 50% qualification is a very fair standard. Many schools are contingent on being top 1/3 to keep all your scholly $$$, and that is pretty rough.

If you're bottom half at any t2 during 1L you should drop out anyway.

35k at seton hall is a good deal. Cardozo would def not be worth paying price for. Fordham could be worth it at full price, but only if biglaw is your ultimate goal, and even then it's still a substantial risk. One that I would not want to take on personally.

SteelReserve wrote:

I got this same offer. . well i think, is your schol. qualified by having to stay in the top50%? I'm wondering, from any seton hall attendees, if that's difficult to do, because i've heard bad things about the curve

Based on what I've seen on this board and others, the 50% qualification is a very fair standard. Many schools are contingent on being top 1/3 to keep all your scholly $$$, and that is pretty rough.

If you're bottom half at any t2 during 1L you should drop out anyway.

35k at seton hall is a good deal. Cardozo would def not be worth paying price for. Fordham could be worth it at full price, but only if biglaw is your ultimate goal, and even then it's still a substantial risk. One that I would not want to take on personally.

Thats a pretty bold statement. Dumb question but don't you think that law schools would have higher attrition rates if that were the case? Inevitably, someone has to be at the bottom of the pile.

Not to sound overly optomistic because I am well aware of the economic condition we're facing right now, but wouldn't there be some sort of massive outcry from all the T2 through T-4 students if employment was THAT difficult to seek (minus JDunderground)??? If your statement is completely valid, then like 75% of the people who go to law school should "drop out"...

Dumb question but don't you think that law schools would have higher attrition rates if that were the case?

That is a very fair question and I will try to answer it frankly and fairly.

A little background info: I'm a 2L at a T2 with a small and manageable debt load. I'm fairly high in rank, on the LR and am part of the 5% of my class that has a paying job lined up for the summer. I think in the end things will work out fine for me and I genuinely enjoy the law. So, I'm not some bitter JDUer with an agenda.

That said, I can easily answer for you why law schools don't have high attrition rates: It is extremely hard to voluntarily withdraw from law school.

Here's the story...

You're a 1L. You wanted a be a lawyer your whole life, so you did well in college, studied your ass off for the LSAT, suffered through Testmasters and you did alright but it's T2 for you.
You've told all your friends and family you're going to law school...you're excited! You got accepted! I mean damn, you know what you're doing post-grad and who wants to be a newly minted college grad looking for a job in this economy anyway?

You start classes. Damn, law school is hard and legal research class is boring as hell. But you bust your ass because you're at a T2 and you know you have to do well. You crush all Thanksgiving break and your family is proud of you for working so hard.
But hey, there's a forced curve, everyone is smart in law school, and you just didn't do that great: You got straight B's and are in the bottom half of the class. Dammit. Maybe you should drop out you think. But no: You want to be a lawyer and you'll just double your efforts for the spring semester and boost that GPA baby!

Christmas/Hannukah comes along and you spend lots of time with family. They want to know what kind of lawyer you're gonna be, how proud they are of you...you're primed to redouble your efforts for the spring.

So you bust your ass, spend weekends away from your friends doing well in your writing class, keep up with the E&E's, take great notes in class...bust your ass studying but you know what? You get B's again. You're a perfectly smart, hardworking person, but test taking just isn't your thing...now what? Should you drop out?

Man, you're already 1/3 through school, you're 40k in debt and you spent all that time studying for the LSAT and exams. If you drop out now, you'll have nothing to show for that lost year and 40k of debt.

All of a sudden dropping out doesn't look so hot. At least if you stick it out you'll have the JD to show for it. You tell your family you're thinking about dropping out, but they are adamant you don't: afterall, a JD opens so many doors, right?

Plus, if you do, you're going to become something you've never been your entire life: a Dropout

..........


A fucking dropout

SteelReserve wrote:

Dumb question but don't you think that law schools would have higher attrition rates if that were the case?

That is a very fair question and I will try to answer it frankly and fairly.

A little background info: I'm a 2L at a T2 with a small and manageable debt load. I'm fairly high in rank, on the LR and am part of the 5% of my class that has a paying job lined up for the summer. I think in the end things will work out fine for me and I genuinely enjoy the law. So, I'm not some bitter JDUer with an agenda.

That said, I can easily answer for you why law schools don't have high attrition rates: It is extremely hard to voluntarily withdraw from law school.

Here's the story...

You're a 1L. You wanted a be a lawyer your whole life, so you did well in college, studied your ass off for the LSAT, suffered through Testmasters and you did alright but it's T2 for you.
You've told all your friends and family you're going to law school...you're excited! You got accepted! I mean damn, you know what you're doing post-grad and who wants to be a newly minted college grad looking for a job in this economy anyway?

You start classes. Damn, law school is hard and legal research class is boring as hell. But you bust your ass because you're at a T2 and you know you have to do well. You crush all Thanksgiving break and your family is proud of you for working so hard.
But hey, there's a forced curve, everyone is smart in law school, and you just didn't do that great: You got straight B's and are in the bottom half of the class. Dammit. Maybe you should drop out you think. But no: You want to be a lawyer and you'll just double your efforts for the spring semester and boost that GPA baby!

Christmas/Hannukah comes along and you spend lots of time with family. They want to know what kind of lawyer you're gonna be, how proud they are of you...you're primed to redouble your efforts for the spring.

So you bust your ass, spend weekends away from your friends doing well in your writing class, keep up with the E&E's, take great notes in class...bust your ass studying but you know what? You get B's again. You're a perfectly smart, hardworking person, but test taking just isn't your thing...now what? Should you drop out?

Man, you're already 1/3 through school, you're 40k in debt and you spent all that time studying for the LSAT and exams. If you drop out now, you'll have nothing to show for that lost year and 40k of debt.

All of a sudden dropping out doesn't look so hot. At least if you stick it out you'll have the JD to show for it. You tell your family you're thinking about dropping out, but they are adamant you don't: afterall, a JD opens so many doors, right?

Plus, if you do, you're going to become something you've never been your entire life: a Dropout

..........


A fucking dropout

Inspiring

Thanks. Bump because I spent a whole 3 minutes in class writing that and I think it was a well thought out example of why no one actually drops out even though they say they will if they bomb first year.

Dude... you have a paid summer job, are in the top 5% of your class and have solid earning prospects... and you still drink Steel Reserve. You're hopeless.

SteelReserve wrote:

Dumb question but don't you think that law schools would have higher attrition rates if that were the case?

That is a very fair question and I will try to answer it frankly and fairly.

A little background info: I'm a 2L at a T2 with a small and manageable debt load. I'm fairly high in rank, on the LR and am part of the 5% of my class that has a paying job lined up for the summer. I think in the end things will work out fine for me and I genuinely enjoy the law. So, I'm not some bitter JDUer with an agenda.

That said, I can easily answer for you why law schools don't have high attrition rates: It is extremely hard to voluntarily withdraw from law school.

Here's the story...

You're a 1L. You wanted a be a lawyer your whole life, so you did well in college, studied your ass off for the LSAT, suffered through Testmasters and you did alright but it's T2 for you.
You've told all your friends and family you're going to law school...you're excited! You got accepted! I mean damn, you know what you're doing post-grad and who wants to be a newly minted college grad looking for a job in this economy anyway?

You start classes. Damn, law school is hard and legal research class is boring as hell. But you bust your ass because you're at a T2 and you know you have to do well. You crush all Thanksgiving break and your family is proud of you for working so hard.
But hey, there's a forced curve, everyone is smart in law school, and you just didn't do that great: You got straight B's and are in the bottom half of the class. Dammit. Maybe you should drop out you think. But no: You want to be a lawyer and you'll just double your efforts for the spring semester and boost that GPA baby!

Christmas/Hannukah comes along and you spend lots of time with family. They want to know what kind of lawyer you're gonna be, how proud they are of you...you're primed to redouble your efforts for the spring.

So you bust your ass, spend weekends away from your friends doing well in your writing class, keep up with the E&E's, take great notes in class...bust your ass studying but you know what? You get B's again. You're a perfectly smart, hardworking person, but test taking just isn't your thing...now what? Should you drop out?

Man, you're already 1/3 through school, you're 40k in debt and you spent all that time studying for the LSAT and exams. If you drop out now, you'll have nothing to show for that lost year and 40k of debt.

All of a sudden dropping out doesn't look so hot. At least if you stick it out you'll have the JD to show for it. You tell your family you're thinking about dropping out, but they are adamant you don't: afterall, a JD opens so many doors, right?

Plus, if you do, you're going to become something you've never been your entire life: a Dropout

..........


A fucking dropout

I like you.

statuscheckerssuck wrote:

Zannie1986 wrote:I got this same offer. . well i think, is your schol. qualified by having to stay in the top50%? I'm wondering, from any seton hall attendees, if that's difficult to do, because i've heard bad things about the curve

I have a friend that goes there that got full tuition and lost it after her 1L year. Apparently they section stack (although they will tell you different if you ask) and a lot of people lose their money.

Hooray, A Stereotypcial 0L Display of Ignorance: what does section stacking mean?

Hooray, A Stereotypcial 0L Display of Ignorance: what does section stacking mean?

Stacking means the school intentionally places most of the scholarship students together into one section for 1L. This is supposed to make it harder for the scholly students to keep their schollies, because they are in a highly competitive section.

The thing with stacking is there is no way to prove it, at least at most schools. When I was a 1L, EVERYONE thought "their section is the hardest man! we have all the smart kids".

So it's hard to prove, but it does happen.

Stacking or not, a 50% threshold is very fair IMO. Stacking or not, it is not difficult to get into the top half of a T2. The real problem arises at schools that make the scholarship contingent on being top 1/3...then you're taking some major risks because that means you have to break out of the curve.

Dude... you have a paid summer job, are in the top 5% of your class and have solid earning prospects... and you still drink Steel Reserve. You're hopeless.

Well, I didn't say I was in the top 5% of my class in rank, but I AM part of the 5% of 2Ls that will actually be making some money this year. 90% of the class will be doing unpaid internships or take RA positions, just like 1L...it's been a fucking sad year my friends...

With regard to Steel Reserve, old habits die hard. I was cheap in college and I'm cheap today. If I want to get that pre-going out buzz, a couple 211s do the trick every time.