Top Law Schools

3.81 GPA / 162 LSAT

Decent softs: mock trial, immigrant story, good job in silicon valley

FWIW, I was PT'ing in the 165-168 range but whatever, what has happened has happened.

This is the list of schools I was planning on applying to:

Berkeley
Upenn
Northwestern
UVA
Cornell
Duke
Georgetown
Vanderbilt
UCLA
UT Austin
USC
Wash U
GWU
Boston U
Emory U
Notre Dame
Boston College
Hastings
Davis
Santa Clara
Illinois
Indiana

Given this new score, what do you think I should do? I am SERIOUSLY contemplating retaking next year (for my third and final time) and re-applying next cycle. This would be at immense financial and emotional cost to re-applying next year, but I am willing to do it if necessary.

More importantly, are there any tangible detriments to applying to a school if you have already been waitlisted/rejected once (assuming I am now applying with a higher LSAT score)

Thanks so much in advance

You can retake in February if you think you'll be riding some waitlists.

If this LSAT (162) was your second attempt what was your first score? Did you improve by a large margin? If you're confident that you can score markedly better then DEFINITELY retake. Apply now, and retake in Feb. If your scores are within 3 or so points statistically you won't improve much. But again, all of this is very subjective - did you study as best you could? Could you mix up your study habits? Get new PTs, new books? There's not much we can tell you without more information.

Good luck.

well, i doubt you will get in any of the top 30 schools. retake if you're not willing to dip lower down the rankings.

If you have a good job in Silicon Valley why don't you just stay there, retake, and apply next year?

Don't waste your killer GPA.

jawsthegreat wrote:If you have a good job in Silicon Valley why don't you just stay there, retake, and apply next year?

Don't waste your killer GPA.

+1

misformafia wrote:If this LSAT (162) was your second attempt what was your first score? Did you improve by a large margin? If you're confident that you can score markedly better then DEFINITELY retake. Apply now, and retake in Feb. If your scores are within 3 or so points statistically you won't improve much. But again, all of this is very subjective - did you study as best you could? Could you mix up your study habits? Get new PTs, new books? There's not much we can tell you without more information.

Good luck.

I cancelled in September, was not confident going into this test but honest to god, I was so confident for December. I was PTing consistently between 165 - 168. I am confident I can get my score up to that level, but 170+ is another story. I took a testmasters course and a bunch of old practice tests. I still have lots of material left I can study for another LSAT, except I believe I've done all the logic games ever created.

I didn't study as *best* I could but I studied well leading up to the Dec test

Cale39 wrote:3.81 GPA / 162 LSAT

Decent softs: mock trial, immigrant story, good job in silicon valley

FWIW, I was PT'ing in the 165-168 range but whatever, what has happened has happened.

This is the list of schools I was planning on applying to:

Berkeley
Upenn
Northwestern
UVA
Cornell
Duke
Georgetown
Vanderbilt
UCLA
UT Austin
USC
Wash U
GWU
Boston U
Emory U
Notre Dame
Boston College
Hastings
Davis
Santa Clara
Illinois
Indiana

Given this new score, what do you think I should do? I am SERIOUSLY contemplating retaking next year (for my third and final time) and re-applying next cycle. This would be at immense financial and emotional cost to re-applying next year, but I am willing to do it if necessary.

More importantly, are there any tangible detriments to applying to a school if you have already been waitlisted/rejected once (assuming I am now applying with a higher LSAT score)

Thanks so much in advance

My guess is that it would depend on the adcomm. If they rejected you and look at another app and see they rejected you before, that can't possibly be a plus. Is it a minus? My guess is that in some cases it could be... just psychologically.

You're likely OUT at most of that list (I don't really know the last few). If those are the schools you really want to go to, personally I would suck it up, really prepare well to take the test again and just do it.

If you're willing to compromise and look at 2nd tier schools you can always just do that.

My suggestion: With your GPA, if you honestly think you can increase your LSAT, then postpone a cycle. I thought it would be beyond painful (as I'm well older than your average 1L) but by increasing my LSAT 9 points, I bought myself a host of choices I would not otherwise have had. And, you know, it's only a year. Just a blip in a lifetime.

Cale39 wrote:

misformafia wrote:If this LSAT (162) was your second attempt what was your first score? Did you improve by a large margin? If you're confident that you can score markedly better then DEFINITELY retake. Apply now, and retake in Feb. If your scores are within 3 or so points statistically you won't improve much. But again, all of this is very subjective - did you study as best you could? Could you mix up your study habits? Get new PTs, new books? There's not much we can tell you without more information.

Good luck.

I cancelled in September, was not confident going into this test but honest to god, I was so confident for December. I was PTing consistently between 165 - 168. I am confident I can get my score up to that level, but 170+ is another story. I took a testmasters course and a bunch of old practice tests. I still have lots of material left I can study for another LSAT, except I believe I've done all the logic games ever created.

I didn't study as *best* I could but I studied well leading up to the Dec test

Sort of depends on the effort you think you can put in. My best advice would be to explore the LSAT prep threads on here and focus on your weaknesses. Don't just do what you did before. I got the same score twice, it literally almost killed me. I just did the same shit I did the first time. So see where you messed up, and what some new methods are. As everyone says the LSAT is a learnable test, however, it's not unusual to score several points below your average on the actual test. You said yourself you're confident you can score up to that level, so I say go for it. Take a few weeks off and chill, then come back into it with a plan.

These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

misformafia wrote:

Cale39 wrote:

misformafia wrote:If this LSAT (162) was your second attempt what was your first score? Did you improve by a large margin? If you're confident that you can score markedly better then DEFINITELY retake. Apply now, and retake in Feb. If your scores are within 3 or so points statistically you won't improve much. But again, all of this is very subjective - did you study as best you could? Could you mix up your study habits? Get new PTs, new books? There's not much we can tell you without more information.

Good luck.

I cancelled in September, was not confident going into this test but honest to god, I was so confident for December. I was PTing consistently between 165 - 168. I am confident I can get my score up to that level, but 170+ is another story. I took a testmasters course and a bunch of old practice tests. I still have lots of material left I can study for another LSAT, except I believe I've done all the logic games ever created.

I didn't study as *best* I could but I studied well leading up to the Dec test

Sort of depends on the effort you think you can put in. My best advice would be to explore the LSAT prep threads on here and focus on your weaknesses. Don't just do what you did before. I got the same score twice, it literally almost killed me. I just did the same shit I did the first time. So see where you messed up, and what some new methods are. As everyone says the LSAT is a learnable test, however, it's not unusual to score several points below your average on the actual test. You said yourself you're confident you can score up to that level, so I say go for it. Take a few weeks off and chill, then come back into it with a plan.

Seriously. I need to figure out a new way to study for the test. Between the Sept and Dec test, I followed the same study pattern which obviously didn't bring me much success.

Cale39 wrote:These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

A lot of people do this to increase scholarships. Staying on a waitlist that long is rough too (as you may be released before the June test). I would say retake in FEBRUARY. You don't need all Spring to prepare. Seriously, make a plan for studying this next month.

Cale39 wrote:These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

I don't see why this wouldn't be okay. Are you going to have a backup plan for your life for one year?

misformafia wrote:

Cale39 wrote:These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

A lot of people do this to increase scholarships. Staying on a waitlist that long is rough too (as you may be released before the June test). I would say retake in FEBRUARY. You don't need all Spring to prepare. Seriously, make a plan for studying this next month.

Agreed. However, you would need to spend much of the next month and a half studying for the LSAT. About as much as you would spend at a full-time job (i.e. 40-60 hours per week) If you do, given your previous experience and PT range, you could definitely see a boost into the upper 160s, maybe higher...
The retake in Feb. would be better for WLs though, because there's not much (if any) action on most WLs in the summer.

Man up and retake in Feb. Get MAD.

While we're on the subject (and apologies in advance for keeping it vague):

I want to apply to 2 schools, both of which I'm basically a lock for admission given my LSAT/GPA, however I am desperate for scholarship money. If I apply now with my current stats and am admitted before the February LSAT results (which looks to be somewhat likely given what I've seen on LSN), would a higher LSAT score post-admission have any potential impact on scholarship money? I would just call the schools in question, but they're closed this week, and I don't want to be *that* annoying person. I'm happy to be that annoying person on here though.

OneKnight wrote:

misformafia wrote:

Cale39 wrote:These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

A lot of people do this to increase scholarships. Staying on a waitlist that long is rough too (as you may be released before the June test). I would say retake in FEBRUARY. You don't need all Spring to prepare. Seriously, make a plan for studying this next month.

Agreed. However, you would need to spend much of the next month and a half studying for the LSAT. About as much as you would spend at a full-time job (i.e. 40-60 hours per week) If you do, given your previous experience and PT range, you could definitely see a boost into the upper 160s, maybe higher...
The retake in Feb. would be better for WLs though, because there's not much (if any) action on most WLs in the summer.

6 weeks at 40-60 hours a week = 240-360 hours of LSAT study. The danger here is that if you study that much and don't get a 180 killself is mandatory.

awesomepossum wrote:

Cale39 wrote:These are awesome pieces of advice. I have been hearing not to "waste" my GPA with this LSAT score and I do gree.

I am seriously considering doing this: applying this year, seeing where I get in, possibly even putting down a deposit if I can get into a decent school. All the while preparing for the June test. Come June, if I rock the test, I would withdraw from wherever I put my deposit down and re-apply that cycle.

Is that feasible?

I don't see why this wouldn't be okay. Are you going to have a backup plan for your life for one year?

This is going to present a huge problem, especially due to visa issues, but, I will figure something out :/

Cale39 wrote:

misformafia wrote:

Cale39 wrote:

misformafia wrote:If this LSAT (162) was your second attempt what was your first score? Did you improve by a large margin? If you're confident that you can score markedly better then DEFINITELY retake. Apply now, and retake in Feb. If your scores are within 3 or so points statistically you won't improve much. But again, all of this is very subjective - did you study as best you could? Could you mix up your study habits? Get new PTs, new books? There's not much we can tell you without more information.

Good luck.

I cancelled in September, was not confident going into this test but honest to god, I was so confident for December. I was PTing consistently between 165 - 168. I am confident I can get my score up to that level, but 170+ is another story. I took a testmasters course and a bunch of old practice tests. I still have lots of material left I can study for another LSAT, except I believe I've done all the logic games ever created.

I didn't study as *best* I could but I studied well leading up to the Dec test

Sort of depends on the effort you think you can put in. My best advice would be to explore the LSAT prep threads on here and focus on your weaknesses. Don't just do what you did before. I got the same score twice, it literally almost killed me. I just did the same shit I did the first time. So see where you messed up, and what some new methods are. As everyone says the LSAT is a learnable test, however, it's not unusual to score several points below your average on the actual test. You said yourself you're confident you can score up to that level, so I say go for it. Take a few weeks off and chill, then come back into it with a plan.

Seriously. I need to figure out a new way to study for the test. Between the Sept and Dec test, I followed the same study pattern which obviously didn't bring me much success.

Do the Pithypike study guide. Do every PT you can. IMO, it's the best strategy.

asmj07 wrote:While we're on the subject (and apologies in advance for keeping it vague):

I want to apply to 2 schools, both of which I'm basically a lock for admission given my LSAT/GPA, however I am desperate for scholarship money. If I apply now with my current stats and am admitted before the February LSAT results (which looks to be somewhat likely given what I've seen on LSN), would a higher LSAT score post-admission have any potential impact on scholarship money? I would just call the schools in question, but they're closed this week, and I don't want to be *that* annoying person. I'm happy to be that annoying person on here though.

I think this is a question that you must direct to each school. I have a feeling that there isn't much scholarship money left by the time February scores come in, but I have no way to know for sure.

JazzOne wrote:

asmj07 wrote:While we're on the subject (and apologies in advance for keeping it vague):

I want to apply to 2 schools, both of which I'm basically a lock for admission given my LSAT/GPA, however I am desperate for scholarship money. If I apply now with my current stats and am admitted before the February LSAT results (which looks to be somewhat likely given what I've seen on LSN), would a higher LSAT score post-admission have any potential impact on scholarship money? I would just call the schools in question, but they're closed this week, and I don't want to be *that* annoying person. I'm happy to be that annoying person on here though.

I think this is a question that you must direct to each school. I have a feeling that there isn't much scholarship money left by the time February scores come in, but I have no way to know for sure.

I don't agree with this. You gotta realize that many if not most of the scholarship recipients turn the money down for a better school and that money then goes back into the pool. I rode a ton of WLs last year and followed the offers here and on LSN and many offers were made/ leveraged later into the year.

HOWEVER, your point is still solid that it would be optimal in all respects to apply early. I would still strongly suggest retaking in feb over waiting a whole year and reapplying.

I would wait till June, retake, and then apply next cycle. You are late in the application cycle (I was correct in reading that you still havent applied right?) to begin with, your LSAT won't get you into the schools you want, and you have a job that can hold you over until then. Take a break for a bit, pick up studying again in February, and make sure you take as many practice exams as you can.

Next cycle, since you already will have your personal statement prepared from this cycle, and you'll know your LSAT score, you can pick what schools to apply to and send applications in as soon as they become available. An early app, with a compelling statement, and a 168 on your LSAT could get you into Berkeley, for example.

Hi guys,

Back again with another quick question. I originally thought my LSAC GPA would be a 3.81 but LSAC just completed my report and it is actually a 3.74. I must have miscalculated earlier. Should this change my plan of waiting to see where I get accepted but re-taking the June 2010 LSAT and applying literally the first day of the next admissions cycle?

Thanks!

That's a small GPA difference. I imagine it won't change anyone's advice very much.