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just testing the waters

osgiliath wrote:What is to stop someone from lying on a personal statement about a life-changing event? Many of these happen within one's personal life, outside of any regulated organizations and without paper trails.

I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa and a 175 LSAT. Would you suggest making something up?

Ah...your looking for someone to suggest that you lie on your application?

To answer your first question. Integrity.

Sigh. Oh boy.

Also, great way to start your endeavor into the law profession, by lying. I'll admit, it's bullshit to think of law as this noble, ethical, moral-upholding profession. But c'mon.

Go for it. Seemed to work well for this chick

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/summer-a ... lagiarist/

Enjoy WUSTL

aschup wrote:

+1

If serious OP, you are ridiculous

I didn't really lie about anything on my personal statement, but I did stretch the truth further than most people would be comfortable with. If hell existed, I doubt I'd go there for this.

2011Law wrote:I didn't really lie about anything on my personal statement, but I did stretch the truth further than most people would be comfortable with. If hell existed, I doubt I'd go there for this.

Pics or didn't happen.

2011Law wrote:I did stretch the truth further than most people would be comfortable with. If hell existed, I doubt I'd go there for this.

That is probably in the wrong if you are able to make that kind of comment..

Flips88 wrote:Enjoy WUSTL

Because of his stats or because WUSTL is full of dirty liars?

Edit: But seriously, I've known people who've stretched the truth, and people who've outright lied on grad school essays and personal statements. Their fibs have thus far gone undetected. Of course, if you get caught, you can kiss your ass (and your professional career) goodbye. And all for an essay that doesn't really matter much to begin with. So if that's a (huge) risk you're willing to take and an (un)ethical decision you can live with, then go for it.

Don't lie. That shit will come back to haunt you.

You can embelish or maybe add a dramatic flair to your P.S. but don't change the facts.

Go for it; just make sure the story is unfalsifiable by the bar.

The law school won't investigate: you could get away with not disclosing C&F issues, lying about major scholarships and awards (probably anything short of the Rhodes), etc., and the law school won't find out.

But the first thing that every state bar does when you apply for admission is compare your LS application (at the school to which you ended up going) to your bar application, so you'll have to lie to them, too. If you otherwise have a clean record (with regard to C&F), then they probably will not probe deeply into your background except to call your (pre-LS) references, and sometimes 1-2 additional references given by those references (so that they talk to people other than those that you supplied).

Even if you do get randomly selected for further investigation, you might pick something (like depression or that you were close friends with some random person who died your freshman year) that they can't disprove. But it's really ballsy. Ask yourself how much the lower T14 is likely to care about your sob story anyway; the really good ones do come with documentation.

Pressed "profile," and half hoped that you attended WUSTL. (for effect)

Thank goodness you won't be clerking high level.

Edit: my bad flcath - I realize in hindsight how latter statement can be interpreted as elitist - I don't actually know what school you attend, and I certainly don't mean it in such a way.

glewz wrote:

flcath wrote:Go for it; just make sure the story is unfalsifiable by the bar.

Pressed "profile," and half hoped that you attended WUSTL. (for effect)

Thank goodness you don't have a shot at high level clerking.

Lol.

Look kid, I personally didn't lie on my application, and even had to disclose shit that I really would rather not, but ethics are personal, and an anonymous forum is unlikely to dissuade someone from making a decision on moral grounds.

I think if you read my post--which is both honest and 100% accurate, and more believable since it doesn't morally condemn the OP--it does more to deter the OP than other reply ITT. The OP should weigh the practical gains (which I've tried to show him are not that great, given the risks) against the moral implications, and hopefully decide not to lie on his PS.

I'll add one more practical benefit to telling the truth, which was implicit in my last post but possibly missed: you will sleep sounder over the next 3 years not having to worry about being uncovered and humiliated.

Nah brah. But I definitely recommend lying on your diversity statement.

flcath wrote:

glewz wrote:

flcath wrote:Go for it; just make sure the story is unfalsifiable by the bar.

Pressed "profile," and half hoped that you attended WUSTL. (for effect)

Thank goodness you don't have a shot at high level clerking.

Lol.

Look kid, I personally didn't lie on my application, and even had to disclose shit that I really would rather not, but ethics are personal, and an anonymous forum is unlikely to dissuade someone from making a decision on moral grounds.

I think if you read my post--which is both honest and 100% accurate, and more believable since it doesn't morally condemn the OP--it does more to deter the OP than other reply ITT. The OP should weigh the practical gains (which I've tried to show him are not that great, given the risks) against the moral implications, and hopefully decide not to lie on his PS.

I'll add one more practical benefit to telling the truth, which was implicit in my last post but possibly missed: you will sleep sounder over the next 3 years not having to worry about being uncovered and humiliated.

Your first sentence was "Go for it; just make sure the story is unfalsifiable by the bar," and that is not the right message to impart.

Yes, your qualifying statements do gesture in the right direction, but it would have been much more scrupulous to directly advise OP against said actions while still falling short of moral condemnation.

osgiliath wrote:What is to stop someone from lying on a personal statement about a life-changing event? Many of these happen within one's personal life, outside of any regulated organizations and without paper trails.

I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa and a 175 LSAT. Would you suggest making something up?

Ethics, integrity, dignity, self respect, just to name a few.

chimp wrote:

osgiliath wrote:What is to stop someone from lying on a personal statement about a life-changing event? Many of these happen within one's personal life, outside of any regulated organizations and without paper trails.

I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa and a 175 LSAT. Would you suggest making something up?

Ethics, integrity, dignity, self respect, just to name a few.

+1,000,000 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just don't do it.

Dear OP:

r = Risk of getting caught by the bar (low but non-trivial, I promise you)
p = penalty if you are caught (this will be brutal... it may be worse than if you'd never gotten into LS)
b = benefit gained in the LS apps due to your lie (this will be low; LS is a numbers game)

r*p > b


Moral issues, if you have them (and I encourage you to, as you will live a happier life even while others surpass your worldly success) only push the equation further in favor of the left side.

What the fuck is this? This is ridiculous.

flcath wrote:Dear OP:

r = Risk of getting caught by the bar (low but non-trivial, I promise you)
p = penalty if you are caught (this will be brutal... it may be worse than if you'd never gotten into LS)
b = benefit gained in the LS apps due to your lie (this will be low; LS is a numbers game)

r*p > b


Moral issues, if you have them (and I encourage you to, as you will live a happier life even while others surpass your worldly success) only push the equation further in favor of the left side.

+1,read my first response's edit btw - my bad for subconsciously being a major dbag

DeeCee wrote:What the fuck is this? This is ridiculous.

Lots of people consider doing this, or have considered lying on an application at some point in their life. My LS apps didn't tempt me in this way (I knew I'd get in somewhere), but I've been desperate for a job before and thought about it.

It's the type of question that deserves to be seriously addressed here, b/c people are ashamed to ask about it outside of an anonymous environment.

flcath wrote:

DeeCee wrote:What the fuck is this? This is ridiculous.

Lots of people consider doing this, or have considered lying on an application at some point in their life. My LS apps didn't tempt me in this way (I knew I'd get in somewhere), but I've been desperate for a job before and thought about it.

It's the type of question that deserves to be seriously addressed here, b/c people are ashamed to ask about it outside of an anonymous environment.

Sure, people ponder the question.

The credited collective response: GTFO