Quick Grammar Q Forum

[mrwarre85]

Commas rules are my bug-a-boo.

Would it be-

Despite all her fretting, and the time and effort she spent instilling her values in me, we have different worldviews.

Or,

Despite all her fretting and the time and effort she spent instilling her values in me, we have different worldviews.

Then.. would it be-

Through this recognition, I have developed a gratitude for the people I have met and...

Or,

Through this recognition I have developmed a gratitude for the people I have met and...

I can't remember the rules about dependent clauses.. to me "through this recognition" is actually a depended clause.

Any takers?

[NYC_7911]

1st option for both.

[JazzOne]

.

[philosoraptor]

Though I don't know the context, I question the value and overall quality of both sentences -- especially the second.

But to answer your question, the commas are a point of style, not grammar. Sentence 1, option 1 makes the "time and effort" phrase parenthetical. It's clearer than option 2. In general, keep your introductory phrases short. Your reader doesn't want to keep 16 words and multiple conjunctions in mind before she even reaches the meat of the sentence. Read it out loud, and you will see how awkward it is. Better would be something like: "She spent a lot of time and effort trying to instill her values in me. But despite her fretting, we have different world views." (In this limited context, "fretting" sounds like a poor word choice.)

The second sentence doesn't really make sense. But a good rule of thumb is that if your introductory phrase is three words or longer, you should use a comma. Again, read it out loud. Wherever you pause, that's likely a good spot for punctuation.

[NYC_7911]

JazzOne-- I don't disagree, but I chose the comma in the first sentence for stylistic reasons. Because the two components of the conjunction are each pretty long, it sounds awkward without a comma to break it up. That said, OP could take care of the problem by tightening up the wording. Maybe something like:

"Despite all her fretting and effort spent instilling her values in me, we have different worldviews."

I feel like that would work without the comma, but not the original.

[JazzOne]

Though I don't know the context, I question the value and overall quality of both sentences -- especially the second.

But to answer your question, the commas are a point of style, not grammar. Sentence 1, option 1 makes the "time and effort" phrase parenthetical. It's clearer than option 2. In general, keep your introductory phrases short. Your reader doesn't want to keep 16 words and multiple conjunctions in mind before she even reaches the meat of the sentence. Read it out loud, and you will see how awkward it is. Better would be something like: "She spent a lot of time and effort trying to instill her values in me. But despite her fretting, we have different world views." (In this limited context, "fretting" sounds like a poor word choice.)

The second sentence doesn't really make sense. But a good rule of thumb is that if your introductory phrase is three words or longer, you should use a comma. Again, read it out loud. Wherever you pause, that's likely a good spot for punctuation.

+1

[JazzOne]

JazzOne-- I don't disagree, but I chose the comma in the first sentence for stylistic reasons. Because the two components of the conjunction are each pretty long, it sounds awkward without a comma to break it up. That said, OP could take care of the problem by tightening up the wording. Maybe something like:

"Despite all her fretting and effort spent instilling her values in me, we have different worldviews."

I feel like that would work without the comma, but not the original.

The original sentence was awkward but grammatically correct. You'll see a lot of that in legal writing, and you'll get used to reading conjunctive clauses that wouldn't be appropriate in other contexts. Nonetheless, the OP is not writing a law review note, so I agree with your assessment. Two simple sentences are better than one awkward sentence.

[NYC_7911]

The original sentence was awkward but grammatically correct. You'll see a lot of that in legal writing, and you'll get used to reading conjunctive clauses that wouldn't be appropriate in other contexts. Nonetheless, the OP is not writing a law review note, so I agree with your assessment. It's better to avoid an awkward construction of a sentence. Better to write two simple sentences.

Interesting point about legal style; I feel like that will definitely take some getting used to. +1 to the 2 sentence recommendation (and to whoever suggested getting rid of the word "fretting").

[mrwarre85]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

[JazzOne]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

[mrwarre85]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

[JazzOne]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

nvm, lol

"Its" fine the way it is.

[philosoraptor]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

Calm down, bro. You asked this question in a writing forum, presumably, because you wanted advice from good writers. We offered our help, with the understanding that we didn't have all the context. Either listen to us or don't, but save your hostility for the lounge or wherever.

[mrwarre85]

I would put "its" in a personel statment just like you would put LOOOLZZ NVM. Go masturbate to someone elses girlfriend you hypocritical fuck.

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

NVM, lol

"Its" fine the way it is.

[JazzOne]

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

That's Mr. I-Have-Posted-4100-Times-In-A-Chatroom to you, chump.

[JazzOne]

Deleted out of sympathy for OP

[mrwarre85]

My hostility wasn't aimed at you bro. It's correct to say people should try to take advice well, but some people should also work on how they deliver advice.

I choose the word fretting because I was talking about my grandmother. Ok thanks I'll go with the first option. I would rather go with the second because when I read those sentences I do not pause at the comma, but I'd rather my paper be techinally correct--whatever the fuck that means.

lol

Most of the votes were for neither, but ok.

Its impossible to ascertain whether or not the sentences are in need of revision without access to the entire essay. Things fit "in context" and that is something you don't have.

But please, don't hesitate to get your rocks off and feel self-important, Mr. I have posted 4000 times in a chatroom.

Calm down, bro. You asked this question in a writing forum, presumably, because you wanted advice from good writers. We offered our help, with the understanding that we didn't have all the context. Either listen to us or don't, but save your hostility for the lounge or wherever.

[JazzOne]

My hostility wasn't aimed at you bro. It's correct to say people should try to take advice well, but some people should also work on how they deliver advice.

Some people should go back to fretting with grandma.

[JazzOne]

Go masturbate to someone elses girlfriend you hypocritical fuck.

Now, now, what would grandma say if she knew about this post?

[Montevillian]

For the first one, I would have gone with the second option. However, unless I am mistaken, both options there would be correct enough that an adcomm reading it wouldn't have a problem. The second sentence should be the first option for sure.
And if you're old enough to be applying for law school, you should be old enough to have a thicker skin when someone's a little rude towards you. Both of you guys should just stop.

[JazzOne]

Seriously, OP. You applied to Berkeley with a 2.9? lol

Fucking flame.

[mrwarre85]

Thanks. So on the first one, the second option is correct? It reads better, but some people are very picky about grammatical rules, although they change and were often ignored by some very famous authors. I am not a good writer, though, so I appreciate your help. You woudln't have time to read over my PS, would ya? You seem very rational and I would appreicate your feedback.

For the first one, I would have gone with the second option. However, unless I am mistaken, both options there would be correct enough that an adcomm reading it wouldn't have a problem. The second sentence should be the first option for sure.
And if you're old enough to be applying for law school, you should be old enough to have a thicker skin when someone's a little rude towards you. Both of you guys should just stop.

[Montevillian]

Thanks. So on the first one, the second option is correct? It reads better, but some people are very picky about grammatical rules, although they change and were often ignored by some very famous authors. I am not a good writer, though, so I appreciate your help. You woudln't have time to read over my PS, would ya? You seem very rational and I would appreicate your feedback.

For the first one, I would have gone with the second option. However, unless I am mistaken, both options there would be correct enough that an adcomm reading it wouldn't have a problem. The second sentence should be the first option for sure.
And if you're old enough to be applying for law school, you should be old enough to have a thicker skin when someone's a little rude towards you. Both of you guys should just stop.

I would definitely think that the second option is at least technically correct- it may read a little awkward, however. It may just be that sentence. I would consider rewriting that sentence to flow a little better.
Sorry, I'm not the best authority on personal statements. I'm decent with grammar, but I am sure you would receive much more specific help if you just made an open request for reviews.