GI Bill Yellow Ribbon Program Forum

[bumblebeetoona]

This thread has been incredibly helpful, but I have to admit, the more information that comes out the more confused I get. I'm glad I'm not using until next year - seems like there are a lot of uncertainties.

[Elon0302]

I am a 2L at Elon Law in Greensboro, NC. It appears that the University has decided to participate in YRP for 2009-2010, at least with respect to the Law School. This is unofficial as of now, and the amount of waiver is yet to be determined. If you are applying/accepted at Elon I encourage you to contact admissions and (strongly) express your interest in YRP. Feel free to contact me with any questions at sshaw6 at elon.edu.

Best regards,
Stephen

ps/ By the way, Elon (although new) is turning into a terrific school, and the integrated leadership program should be a natural attraction to those with military experience.

[alveron]

Okay, I have finished reading the entire FAQ on the Yellow Ribbon Program. You should all check out the answers to question 8 and question 33. The VA is determining max tuition by the credit hour rate on the table multiplied by the number of hours a specific student is taking. So Student A with 15 hours will have a lower maximum payable than Student B taking 18 hours even though they are charged the same tuition by the school. So that is really good news considering we were being conservative and thinking the max tuition payable would cap out at 12 hours. You can find the FAQ here.

[dapoetic1]

Okay, I have finished reading the entire FAQ on the Yellow Ribbon Program. You should all check out the answers to question 8 and question 33. The VA is determining max tuition by the credit hour rate on the table multiplied by the number of hours a specific student is taking. So Student A with 15 hours will have a lower maximum payable than Student B taking 18 hours even though they are charged the same tuition by the school. So that is really good news considering we were being conservative and thinking the max tuition payable would cap out at 12 hours. You can find the FAQ here.

There's a couple thing going on with this.
1--Even if you are taking 20 credit hours law school credit hour charge is going to far exceed undergraduate per credit hour charge. As a law student you're going to hit the maximum amount of tuition allowed to be paid in that state before you reach the full amount of credits you're taking. So they're only going to pay the max amount they would pay any undergrad. And then YRP will cover whatever percentage they've agreed upon.
2- It will probably depend less on the actual number of credit hours you take in law school and more on how much per credit hour you're charged, and how much per credit hour you're allowed through VA. Someone taking 18 hours at a school in say Pennsylvania could have a potentially lower amount they need waived than someone taking 15 hours in Indiana. Two students taking different credit hours (say 15 and 18) at Law School X will both exceed the max amount and both need the same amount of tuition waived because they will both be receiving the max amount for that state no matter how many credits they're taking.
3- -It's not so much that the max tuition caps out at 12 hours it's more dependent on what the undergraduate college considers the max tuition cap to be. At most undergrad schools once you take 12 hours it the same fee as taking 15 hours. That flat fee for whatever each state considers to be full time is going to be the cap for law students. And the YRP will have to cover what VA doesn't cover over that state tuition max.

There's a chart on gibll2008.org that shows every state, the most expensive school in that state for undergrad, and the maximum amount of tuition that will be paid to any veteran that attends school in the state.
A couple of caveats that information is not current for the 2009-10 school year but it'll give you a good idea. The amount of money paid for the monthly stipend is simply an average for the state. Obviously the real benefits will depend on the actual zip code.

EDIT: if you take a look at question 7 on the pdf you posted you will see that graduate students are not really in the same boat because they're going to exceed a school max undergrad tuition and they're urging school's to consider participating particularly for this reason:
Carefully consider graduate students and/or out-of-state students that may have tuition or fees that exceed the posted in-state undergraduate maximum tuition and fees.

[dapoetic1]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From an email to Rutgers University Veterans Affairs members:

Following our April 13 meeting, I shared with Executive Vice President Philip Furmanski and President McCormick our recommendation that Rutgers join the "Yellow Ribbon" Federal program. Dr. Furmanski concurred with our recommendation and President McCormick immediately approved it.

The email says that the University Registrar is currently in the process of completing the necessary paperwork to apply for the program. Here's what the program means:

As a "Yellow Ribbon" university, out-of-State veterans will be able to attend all campuses of Rutgers University without paying the additional out-of-State tuition charges. Under the program, the Federal government pays up to 50% of the cost of the out-of-State tuition differential and Rutgers waves the remaining 50%. This allows veterans from out-of State to apply their military tuition benefits at Rutgers in the same way as an in-State veteran would.

[Rotor]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats! Great news!

I wonder how long till UC realizes that simply by waiving some fees (including those they might waive anyway) they'd have another source of cash coming in.

(My luck, probably sometime around 2013...)

[LSATfromNC]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From an email to Rutgers University Veterans Affairs members:

Following our April 13 meeting, I shared with Executive Vice President Philip Furmanski and President McCormick our recommendation that Rutgers join the "Yellow Ribbon" Federal program. Dr. Furmanski concurred with our recommendation and President McCormick immediately approved it.

The email says that the University Registrar is currently in the process of completing the necessary paperwork to apply for the program. Here's what the program means:

As a "Yellow Ribbon" university, out-of-State veterans will be able to attend all campuses of Rutgers University without paying the additional out-of-State tuition charges. Under the program, the Federal government pays up to 50% of the cost of the out-of-State tuition differential and Rutgers waves the remaining 50%. This allows veterans from out-of State to apply their military tuition benefits at Rutgers in the same way as an in-State veteran would.

No offense, and maybe I am reading this wrong, but isn't this pointless? Rutgers hands out in state residency as if it was candy, if you sign a lease or buy a house they give you instate tuition. So how does this really change anything?

[dapoetic1]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From an email to Rutgers University Veterans Affairs members:

Following our April 13 meeting, I shared with Executive Vice President Philip Furmanski and President McCormick our recommendation that Rutgers join the "Yellow Ribbon" Federal program. Dr. Furmanski concurred with our recommendation and President McCormick immediately approved it.

The email says that the University Registrar is currently in the process of completing the necessary paperwork to apply for the program. Here's what the program means:

As a "Yellow Ribbon" university, out-of-State veterans will be able to attend all campuses of Rutgers University without paying the additional out-of-State tuition charges. Under the program, the Federal government pays up to 50% of the cost of the out-of-State tuition differential and Rutgers waves the remaining 50%. This allows veterans from out-of State to apply their military tuition benefits at Rutgers in the same way as an in-State veteran would.

They do give you in -state tuition. But that means you're still responsible for paying whatever the overage of tuition is over what VA will pay. The max in state tuition in New Jersey is about $10k (based on the tuition at The College of New Jersey's most expensive undergrad program) The in-state tuition for Rutger Law is about $22k. So that means I would still be responsible for the $12k difference. Well now Rutgers will waive $6k and the VA will pay the other $6k. The article mentions specifically out of state rates but the idea behind the program is to have the school waive whatever tuition charges aren't covered by VA and that is primarily for people at a private school or in a grad/professional program.

No offense, and maybe I am reading this wrong, but isn't this pointless? Rutgers hands out in state residency as if it was candy, if you sign a lease or buy a house they give you instate tuition. So how does this really change anything?

[LSATfromNC]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From an email to Rutgers University Veterans Affairs members:

Following our April 13 meeting, I shared with Executive Vice President Philip Furmanski and President McCormick our recommendation that Rutgers join the "Yellow Ribbon" Federal program. Dr. Furmanski concurred with our recommendation and President McCormick immediately approved it.

The email says that the University Registrar is currently in the process of completing the necessary paperwork to apply for the program. Here's what the program means:

As a "Yellow Ribbon" university, out-of-State veterans will be able to attend all campuses of Rutgers University without paying the additional out-of-State tuition charges. Under the program, the Federal government pays up to 50% of the cost of the out-of-State tuition differential and Rutgers waves the remaining 50%. This allows veterans from out-of State to apply their military tuition benefits at Rutgers in the same way as an in-State veteran would.

They do give you in -state tuition. But that means you're still responsible for paying whatever the overage of tuition is over what VA will pay. The max in state tuition in New Jersey is about $10k (based on the tuition at The College of New Jersey's most expensive undergrad program) The in-state tuition for Rutger Law is about $22k. So that means I would still be responsible for the $12k difference. Well now Rutgers will waive $6k and the VA will pay the other $6k. The article mentions specifically out of state rates but the idea behind the program is to have the school waive whatever tuition charges aren't covered by VA and that is primarily for people at a private school or in a grad/professional program.

No offense, and maybe I am reading this wrong, but isn't this pointless? Rutgers hands out in state residency as if it was candy, if you sign a lease or buy a house they give you instate tuition. So how does this really change anything?

If Rutgers, especially a law school was specific enough to mention "out of state" I would be wary if this covers any of that 12k difference.

I know the Yellow Ribbon program was designed to bring down the price, but it is up to schools to as to what level they participate. As you worded it, I think this only brings you down to in state tuition rates.

[Rotor]

If Rutgers, especially a law school was specific enough to mention "out of state" I would be wary if this covers any of that 12k difference.

I know the Yellow Ribbon program was designed to bring down the price, but it is up to schools to as to what level they participate. As you worded it, I think this only brings you down to in state tuition rates.

I don't think they'll be able to differentiate between in-staters and out-of-staters when they decide who gets YRP and who doesn't. The regulations specifically state it's a first come first served sort of thing, though they can designate different funding limits for different schools (undergrad, law school, grad programs, etc)

[dapoetic1]

Well here's the deal
-The law school did not put out the announcement. The announcement was made by the president of Rutgers University (not just the law school). The rest of the wording in the email says that all veterans attending any of Rutgers campuses (they have 4 campuses) will be able to attend any college under this program. It's part of ta three-initiatives specifically designed to improve veterans assistance at Rutgers. You have to remember in the case of undergrad veterans if they simply waive the out of state rate then the veterans would be able to go to school 100% free by simply using the GI Bill benefits (Ch. 33) and the school would not need to enter into an agreement under YRP.

-Rutgers does not make everyone "automatically" in-state. If you are an non resident and you get a lease in NJ then yes you could be given in state residency, but only if you provide that information to the school prior to the first day of class. Otherwise they will assume you are still out of state. Which is not implausible due to the number of commuters from NY,and CT.

If I remain out of state then it looks like this
Tuition is ~$30k
GI Bill would pay a max of ~$10k
I would still owe $20k
Rutgers would waive $10k and VA would pay $10k

So if they would rather me stay as an out of state student and pay a total of $20k versus paying ~$16k when Rutgers classifies me as a resident then clearly I would just remain out of state. Any Rutgers Veteran would be insane to change their residency to in-state if this were the only way.
The YRP has rules and allows schools to determine how they will participate, but the YRP isn't designed for schools to discriminate based on residency. There's actually an application that schools have to fill out and on that application they have to say if there is a cap on the number of students they're willing to accept to do YRP for and if there is a certain percentage they are willing to waive for the excess tuition. Whether that tuition cost comes from a student being in-state or out of state would be irrelevant. If they choose to waive 50% then it will be 50% of tuition (and fees) regardless of residency.


The language describing the program explains that YRP is specifically to cover the excess of tuition over the max in-state undergrad tuition which will alway affect students at certain students. Even if they waive the out of state fee there is still an overage based on being in an expensive grad program.

The Post-9/11 GI Bill pays up to the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition and fees. You may have tuition and fees that exceed that amount if you are attending a private institution, graduate school or attending in an out-of-state status. If you are enrolled at a Yellow Ribbon participating institution and the tuition and fees exceed the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition or fees, additional funds may be available for your education program without an additional charge to your entitlement.

[dapoetic1]

I think I've been able to get a much better understanding of what Rutgers did with the whole in-state/out of state thing.

According to the YRP if a school participates they can not just arbitrarily commit to giving the veteran money and let the VA match it. For every dime they are wanting to have matched they have to have the funds available in the form of grant or scholarship and that money can't come from a 3rd party and the money can't be set aside only for use by specific people (such as certain institutional scholarships). So they allow schools to give a dollar amount, or a percentage and give different dollar amounts for students in different colleges (undergrad, nursing, med,law, business, engineering etc.) in order to stay within their school's budget.
So if Rutgers participates in YRP and all of their vets are out of state then the school has to have enough unrestricted scholarship to cover the higher cost of out of state education. However, if Rutgers (like a few other schools have done) decides they will make all vets in-state regardless of their actual homes then the amount of money they have to contribute as a Yellow Ribbon institute is dramatically decreased because they don't have the extra charge. The decision to waive out-of state tuition/fee is a separate agreement from entering into YRP. But by doing that it allows Rutgers to pay for more vets under the program because it will in turn cost them less.

[armyguyinfl]

o Abraham Lincoln University School of Law
o Albany Law School of Union University
o American College of Law
o American University
o Appalachian School of Law
o Arizona State University
o Ave Maria School of Law
o University of Akron Law School
o University of Alabama Law School
o University of Arizona
o University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
o University of Arkansas, Little Rock

o Barry University, Orlando Campus
o Baylor University
o Birmingham School of Law
o Boston College
o Boston University
o Brigham Young University
o Brooklyn Law School
o University of Baltimore

o California School of Law California School of Law a leading online law school and on line degree program, providing cutting edge legal education, jd doctorate, live classrooms, yearly enrollment.
o California Western
o Campbell University
o Capital University
o Case Western Reserve University NO
o Catholic University Of America
o Chapman University School of Law
o Charleston School of Law
o Chicago-Kent College of Law
o Cleveland State University
o Columbia University
o Concord Law School - Online Law School
o Cornell University
o Creighton University School of Law
o University of California, Berkeley - Boalt Hall NO
o University of California, Davis
o University of California, Hastings
o University of California, Los Angeles
o University of Chicago YES
o University of Cincinnati
o University of Colorado
o University of Connecticut

o DePaul University
o Dickinson School of Law, Penn State Unsure
o Drake University
o Duke University NO
o Duquesne University
o Michigan State University College of Law NO (at this point)
o University of Dayton
o University of Denver
o University of Detroit
o University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law

o Elon University School of Law
o Emory University
o Empire College School of Law
o Faulkner University Thomas Goode Jones School of Law
o Florida Coastal School of Law
o Florida State University NO
o Fordham Law School YES
o Franklin Pierce Law Center
o University of Florida

o George Mason University
o George Washington University YES
o Georgetown University
o Georgia State University
o Glendale University College of Law
o Golden Gate University
o Gonzaga University
o University of Georgia

o Hamline University
o Harvard Law School
o Hofstra University
o Howard University
o University of Hawaii, Manoa
o University of Houston

o Indiana University, Bloomington NO
o Indiana University, Indianapolis
o Inland Valley University
o Irvine University
o University of Idaho
o University of Illinois Yes
o University of Iowa

o John F. Kennedy University School Of Law
o John Marshall Law School - Atlanta
o The John Marshall Law School

o University of Kansas
o University of Kentucky

o Lewis and Clark College -
Northwestern School of Law Yes (per all Illinois schools participating)
o Liberty University School of Law
o Lincoln Law School of Sacramento
o Lincoln Law School of San Jose
o Louisiana State University
o Loyola Law School Los Angeles
o Loyola University, Chicago
o Loyola University, New Orleans
o University of La Verne
o University of Louisville, Louis D. Brandeis School of Law

o Marquette University
o Massachusetts School of Law
o Mercer University Walter F. George School of Law
o Mississippi College School of Law
o Monterey College of Law
o University of Maine
o University of Maryland
o University of Memphis Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law
o University of Miami NO
o University of Michigan
o University Of Minnesota
o University of Mississippi
o University of Missouri, Columbia
o University of Missouri, Kansas City
o University of Montana

o City University of New York
o New College of California School of Law
o New England School of Law
o New York Law School
o New York University
o North Carolina Central University
o Northeastern University
o Northern Illinois University
o Northern Kentucky University
o Northwestern California University
o Northwestern University
o Nova Southeastern University
o State University of New York - Buffalo
o University of Nebraska
o University of Nevada, Las Vegas
o University of New Mexico
o University of North Carolina
o University of North Dakota
o University of Notre Dame

o Oak Brook College of Law
o Ohio Northern University - Claude W. Pettit College of Law
o Ohio State University
o Oklahoma City University

o University of Oklahoma
o University of Oregon

o Pace University
o Pacific Coast University School of Law
o Pacific West College of Law
o Peoples College ofLaw
o Pepperdine University
o Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico School of Law Puerto Rico
o University of Pennsylvania
o University of Pittsburgh
o University of Puerto Rico School of Law Puerto Rico
o University of the Pacific - McGeorge School of Law

o Quinnipiac University School of Law

o Regent University School of Law
o Roger Williams School of Law
o Rutgers University, Camden
o Rutgers University, Newark
o University of Richmond

o Samford University
o San Francisco Law School
o Santa Barbara and Ventura Colleges of Law
o Santa Clara University
o Seattle University Law School
o Seton Hall University
o South Texas College of Law
o Southern California Institute of Law
o Southern Illinois University
o Southern Methodist University
o Southern New England School of Law
o Southwestern University
o St. John's University
o St. Louis University NO
o St. Mary's University
o St. Thomas University School of Law
o Stanford University
o Stetson University
o Suffolk University
o Syracuse University
o University of San Diego
o University of San Francisco
o University of Silicon Valley Law School
o University of South Carolina
o University of South Dakota
o University of Southern California
o University of St. Thomas School of Law

o Temple University
o Texas Southern University - Thurgood Marshall School of Law
o Texas Tech University
o Texas Wesleyan University School of Law
o Thomas Jefferson School of Law
o Thomas M. Cooley Law School
o Touro College - Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center
o Trinity Law School
o Tulane University
o University of Tennessee
o University of Texas
o University of Toledo
o University of Tulsa

o University of Utah

o University of Virginia
o Valparaiso University
o Vanderbilt University
o Vermont Law School
o Villanova University

o College of William and Mary Marshall-Whythe School of Law
o University of Washington
o University of West Los Angeles School of Law and Paralegal Studies
o University of Wisconsin
o University of Wyoming
o Wake Forest University NO
o Washburn University
o Washington and Lee University
o Washington University
o Wayne State University
o West Virginia University
o Western New England College
o Western State University College of Law
o Whittier College
o Widener University
o Willamette University
o William Mitchell College of Law

o Yale University
o Yeshiva University

[dapoetic1]

What's this a list of ?

[AndyB617]

this CAN'T be the yellow ribbon list...i REALLY REALLY hope it is...but it can't be. can it?

[Rotor]

this CAN'T be the yellow ribbon list...i REALLY REALLY hope it is...but it can't be. can it?

It looks to me like a total list of schools....as people find out whether or not a school participates, armyguyinfl will be able to add a NO or YES next to it (a la UC Berkeley (No) or Chicago (Yes) on the list.)
Edit: Probably ought to get a mod to make it the first post in the thread for easy reference, rather than buried so many pages into the thread.

[AndyB617]

and i got my hopes up for nothin...

[LSATfromNC]

this CAN'T be the yellow ribbon list...i REALLY REALLY hope it is...but it can't be. can it?

It looks to me like a total list of schools....as people find out whether or not a school participates, armyguyinfl will be able to add a NO or YES next to it (a la UC Berkeley (No) or Chicago (Yes) on the list.)
Edit: Probably ought to get a mod to make it the first post in the thread for easy reference, rather than buried so many pages into the thread.

updated the 1st post.

[Cole S. Law]

Thought I'd update with some info I got today. I talked to financial aid at Northwestern (hoping to transfer there next year) and the rep said that while they will be participating, the % haven't been finalized. I was hoping that they split the difference with the VA, but I guess its not set in stone. She also hinted that all eligible veterans may not get YRP funds. It sounded like some sort of need based or scholarship type decison would be employed. She was reluctant to offer any specifics until the higher ups finalize their stuff.

Does anyone have any insight on the University participating v. the Law school. For example let's say Northwestern undergrad costs 30k and law is 40k. Will the university set a system-wide level of funding, or will the individual schools will set their own levels..etc. I have been trying to reach U Chicago for the same info, but haven't gotten any answers yet.

[Rotor]

Thought I'd update with some info I got today. I talked to financial aid at Northwestern (hoping to transfer there next year) and the rep said that while they will be participating, the % haven't been finalized. I was hoping that they split the difference with the VA, but I guess its not set in stone. She also hinted that all eligible veterans may not get YRP funds. It sounded like some sort of need based or scholarship type decison would be employed. She was reluctant to offer any specifics until the higher ups finalize their stuff.

Does anyone have any insight on the University participating v. the Law school. For example let's say Northwestern undergrad costs 30k and law is 40k. Will the university set a system-wide level of funding, or will the individual schools will set their own levels..etc. I have been trying to reach U Chicago for the same info, but haven't gotten any answers yet.

Yes, the various schools can set different numbers for different schools (ug/law/business/med/etc.). They also can set the max number they will fund and the max amount they will contribute, so that all sounds right. As nice as it would be to simplify and have the program set rules for all schools (but then no schools would participate for fear of how much it would cost).

The one thing that doesn't sound right is the means test or scholarship decision. The regulations specifically say it is a first come first served program (I think to prevent such cherry picking). I'm on my phone and linking is tough. When I get home tonight, I'll try to find the sections in the FR.

[illmal]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[bumblebeetoona]

illmal, good to know. I didn't realize YR was first come first serve .

[Rotor]

As promised above, here's the link to the ECFR:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... =1;size=25

Look for section 21.9700.(d).(1)...that's where the first-come-first-served is directed. Seems pretty straight forward...first to apply for the program. Subpara (d).(6) talks about how schools can have different max payments based on student status (ug/law/etc.)

Hope this helps.

[dapoetic1]

Thought I'd update with some info I got today. I talked to financial aid at Northwestern (hoping to transfer there next year) and the rep said that while they will be participating, the % haven't been finalized. I was hoping that they split the difference with the VA, but I guess its not set in stone. She also hinted that all eligible veterans may not get YRP funds. It sounded like some sort of need based or scholarship type decison would be employed. She was reluctant to offer any specifics until the higher ups finalize their stuff.

Does anyone have any insight on the University participating v. the Law school. For example let's say Northwestern undergrad costs 30k and law is 40k. Will the university set a system-wide level of funding, or will the individual schools will set their own levels..etc. I have been trying to reach U Chicago for the same info, but haven't gotten any answers yet.

The YRP agreement is set up so that schools can choose how they want to pay out. They can either do a blanket agreement and say they will pay X% of all students tuition and have VA match it. Or...they can actually give a specific percentage breakdown by college. So Northwestern for example could decide that for undergrads in engineering they'll do 50% for undergrads in Humanities they'll do 40% for Grad students they'll do 45% for Law students 40% for B-school 30%....etc. So until you see the official agreement from the school you won't know. What the school can not do is decide that certain law students will be eligible for 50% tuition/fee waivers and others a lesser amount. It has to be the same for every student in that program. The reason every college in the university may offer different amounts is because they can't just waive the tuition. The school has to show that they have money in the budget in the form of "free" scholarship/grant money to match dollar for dollar the amount that is being waived. So for the more expensive law school they may decide to waive a smaller portion so that more students can take part and the law school doesn't go broke doing it.

[dapoetic1]

VA just posted a preliminary list of all schools participating in YRP.
Don't read too much into this. I know for a fact there are a lot of schools that have decided to participate in one form or another and are not on this list. Much like the max tuition/fees chart expect this list to change quite a bit over the next few months.
But for now it's a great place to start and see if your school participates and if so at what amounts.