Top Law Schools

From the article https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-plan ... 72361.html:

"Another major — and less discussed — priority is likely to be reforming Obama's federal loan programs for higher education. Trump insiders believe the federal government has gone way beyond its proper bounds as a loans provider of the domestic departments."

Am I correct in assuming that would also apply to Stafford and Grad PLUS loans for prospective law students? How is that going to work? If we get offered loans this Spring, will they be legitimate for all 3 years? Surely this is the death of PSLF, too.

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I'd certainly hope so. It's just a little nerve wracking as someone who applied for federal loans and will 100% need to take out at least 30K to help pay for school, where I had hoped to do public interest or gov't law.

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smow4029 wrote:From the article https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-plan ... 72361.html:

"Another major — and less discussed — priority is likely to be reforming Obama's federal loan programs for higher education. Trump insiders believe the federal government has gone way beyond its proper bounds as a loans provider of the domestic departments."

Am I correct in assuming that would also apply to Stafford and Grad PLUS loans for prospective law students? How is that going to work? If we get offered loans this Spring, will they be legitimate for all 3 years? Surely this is the death of PSLF, too.

I would expect huge changes to Grad Plus by the fall of 2019 or earlier. I expect a cap reducing the unlimited borrowing capacity. I also expect you'll see a reduction or elimination of the PSLF benefit by fall 2019 as the language can be removed from the promissory notes by then. This will have a huge impact on the expensive law schools ranked in the 10-30 range.

studentloanplanner wrote:

smow4029 wrote:From the article https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-plan ... 72361.html:

"Another major — and less discussed — priority is likely to be reforming Obama's federal loan programs for higher education. Trump insiders believe the federal government has gone way beyond its proper bounds as a loans provider of the domestic departments."

Am I correct in assuming that would also apply to Stafford and Grad PLUS loans for prospective law students? How is that going to work? If we get offered loans this Spring, will they be legitimate for all 3 years? Surely this is the death of PSLF, too.

I would expect huge changes to Grad Plus by the fall of 2019 or earlier. I expect a cap reducing the unlimited borrowing capacity. I also expect you'll see a reduction or elimination of the PSLF benefit by fall 2019 as the language can be removed from the promissory notes by then. This will have a huge impact on the expensive law schools ranked in the 10-30 range.

Where are you getting this expectation from exactly?
You realize that all law schools are extremely expensive, not just the ones in the 10-30 range? Why are you singling them out?

Npret wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

smow4029 wrote:From the article https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-plan ... 72361.html:

"Another major — and less discussed — priority is likely to be reforming Obama's federal loan programs for higher education. Trump insiders believe the federal government has gone way beyond its proper bounds as a loans provider of the domestic departments."

Am I correct in assuming that would also apply to Stafford and Grad PLUS loans for prospective law students? How is that going to work? If we get offered loans this Spring, will they be legitimate for all 3 years? Surely this is the death of PSLF, too.

I would expect huge changes to Grad Plus by the fall of 2019 or earlier. I expect a cap reducing the unlimited borrowing capacity. I also expect you'll see a reduction or elimination of the PSLF benefit by fall 2019 as the language can be removed from the promissory notes by then. This will have a huge impact on the expensive law schools ranked in the 10-30 range.

Where are you getting this expectation from exactly?
You realize that all law schools are extremely expensive, not just the ones in the 10-30 range? Why are you singling them out?

People who go to law schools in the T10 are more likely to make salaries that can pay the loans back.

NCGuy wrote:

Npret wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

smow4029 wrote:From the article https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-plan ... 72361.html:

"Another major — and less discussed — priority is likely to be reforming Obama's federal loan programs for higher education. Trump insiders believe the federal government has gone way beyond its proper bounds as a loans provider of the domestic departments."

Am I correct in assuming that would also apply to Stafford and Grad PLUS loans for prospective law students? How is that going to work? If we get offered loans this Spring, will they be legitimate for all 3 years? Surely this is the death of PSLF, too.

I would expect huge changes to Grad Plus by the fall of 2019 or earlier. I expect a cap reducing the unlimited borrowing capacity. I also expect you'll see a reduction or elimination of the PSLF benefit by fall 2019 as the language can be removed from the promissory notes by then. This will have a huge impact on the expensive law schools ranked in the 10-30 range.

Where are you getting this expectation from exactly?
You realize that all law schools are extremely expensive, not just the ones in the 10-30 range? Why are you singling them out?

People who go to law schools in the T10 are more likely to make salaries that can pay the loans back.

Do you think we'll see less interest in PI or gov't work, then? Knowing how low starting salaries are for those types of legal jobs, even with a JD from a T10 school, could we see a less crowded public sector market in the next few years?

This is wild wild speculation. The current administration has 2 humongous tasks on their plate first - Obamacare and tax reform. Nothing to do with student loans will likely be accomplished before the 2018 elections.

Even still

Donald Trump's proposed student loan forgiveness package is even more forgiving than Obama's.

The Trump administration may have gotten in over their heads by promising to repeal ObamaCare. May look to make headlines elsewhere, such as with respect to student loans.

CanadianWolf wrote:The Trump administration may have gotten in over their heads by promising to repeal ObamaCare. May look to make headlines elsewhere, such as with respect to student loans.

I'm not sure if there's a sexy headline to be had for student loan reform.

NCGuy wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:The Trump administration may have gotten in over their heads by promising to repeal ObamaCare. May look to make headlines elsewhere, such as with respect to student loans.

I'm not sure if there's a sexy headline to be had for student loan reform.

Not to mention that all the people who have student loans would be furious at a major headline about screwing people who need loans.

JohannDeMann wrote:This is wild wild speculation. The current administration has 2 humongous tasks on their plate first - Obamacare and tax reform. Nothing to do with student loans will likely be accomplished before the 2018 elections.

You're right that this is an educated guess based on what I've read in the press on the opinions of key decision makers in the new administration. I think it's also clear that Republicans won't support Trump's plan to make forgiveness even more generous. The lead House Republican on Higher Ed wants to eliminate many of the more generous student loan programs. And don't forget that REPAYE and PAYE are executive orders not laws. Trump could wipe them away with a stroke of a pen. Not so with other major legislation on the agenda

Npret wrote: Where are you getting this expectation from exactly?
You realize that all law schools are extremely expensive, not just the ones in the 10-30 range? Why are you singling them out?

That's fair to call me out for only targeting the 10-30 range. It will also eliminate many for profits schools like the florida coastals of the world if they changed access to Grad Plus. Essentially any school with high tuition would have a really challenging time if they modified the student loan rules.

I targeted 10-30 bc they tend to not have large endowment support, tend to cost a lot of money, and this is a forum on top law schools so I thought it would be more relevant haha

smow4029 wrote: Do you think we'll see less interest in PI or gov't work, then? Knowing how low starting salaries are for those types of legal jobs, even with a JD from a T10 school, could we see a less crowded public sector market in the next few years?

I think any effect would be pretty delayed in happening bc you've already got a bunch of lawyers with degrees out there and their student loan notes have PSLF in them. Once lawyers start coming out without PSLF in the promissory note I think you'll see a huge dropoff in interest every year until not for profit employers have a really hard time recruiting talent

studentloanplanner wrote:

Npret wrote: Where are you getting this expectation from exactly?
You realize that all law schools are extremely expensive, not just the ones in the 10-30 range? Why are you singling them out?

That's fair to call me out for only targeting the 10-30 range. It will also eliminate many for profits schools like the florida coastals of the world if they changed access to Grad Plus. Essentially any school with high tuition would have a really challenging time if they modified the student loan rules.

I targeted 10-30 bc they tend to not have large endowment support, tend to cost a lot of money, and this is a forum on top law schools so I thought it would be more relevant haha

There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

Npret wrote: There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

I think the state schools that offer significant discounts for in state students that also have 75% of their class or more from in state won't be affected too much. There will always be a need for local state and regional schools that are state supported. These schools don't depend on questionable programs like Grad Plus to survive. Agreed that it approaches the level of a crime. It's ridiculous

studentloanplanner wrote:

Npret wrote: There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

I think the state schools that offer significant discounts for in state students that also have 75% of their class or more from in state won't be affected too much. There will always be a need for local state and regional schools that are state supported. These schools don't depend on questionable programs like Grad Plus to survive. Agreed that it approaches the level of a crime. It's ridiculous

I don't think many (any?)schools are in that situation but I haven't looked closely. Maybe CUNY

Npret wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

Npret wrote: There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

I think the state schools that offer significant discounts for in state students that also have 75% of their class or more from in state won't be affected too much. There will always be a need for local state and regional schools that are state supported. These schools don't depend on questionable programs like Grad Plus to survive. Agreed that it approaches the level of a crime. It's ridiculous

I don't think many (any?)schools are in that situation but I haven't looked closely. Maybe CUNY

University of Washington definitely fits the bill.

studentloanplanner wrote:That's fair to call me out for only targeting the 10-30 range. It will also eliminate many for profits schools like the florida coastals of the world if they changed access to Grad Plus. Essentially any school with high tuition would have a really challenging time if they modified the student loan rules.

Why do you think the bolded? Generally Rs have been more forgiving of for-profit schools, and the market believes that for-profit schools will benefit from a Trump administration (their stocks have all generally spiked since election day).

bk1 wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:That's fair to call me out for only targeting the 10-30 range. It will also eliminate many for profits schools like the florida coastals of the world if they changed access to Grad Plus. Essentially any school with high tuition would have a really challenging time if they modified the student loan rules.

Why do you think the bolded? Generally Rs have been more forgiving of for-profit schools, and the market believes that for-profit schools will benefit from a Trump administration (their stocks have all generally spiked since election day).

I think there would be a distinction between the for profit trade schools and colleges and the for profit grad schools. The reason is that the Republicans hate the idea of unlimited Grad Plus borrowing and the for profits depend on that program in a way the trade schools and undergrad focused programs do not. It's not that they would be targeted just that a program that they depend on more would hit them harder. This is just my guess. I think you'll see a lot more Charlotte Law Schools

TakeItToTrial wrote:

Npret wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

Npret wrote: There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

I think the state schools that offer significant discounts for in state students that also have 75% of their class or more from in state won't be affected too much. There will always be a need for local state and regional schools that are state supported. These schools don't depend on questionable programs like Grad Plus to survive. Agreed that it approaches the level of a crime. It's ridiculous

I don't think many (any?)schools are in that situation but I haven't looked closely. Maybe CUNY

University of Washington definitely fits the bill.

University of Washington costs $31,962 per year (in-state) and full-time: $44,124 per year (out-of-state), and last I saw, was fairly stingy with scholarships. How is that not dependent on Grad Plus?

I agree with Npret - even if in-state students are getting a discount from out-of-state rates, it's still pretty damn expensive.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

TakeItToTrial wrote:

Npret wrote:

studentloanplanner wrote:

Npret wrote: There are many lower ranked schools that are the best school for local practice. What do you think will happen? All schools from 10-150 will have issues? Which schools are safe? What about State schools?
For my part part I hope loan reform happens because is a crime what these schools charge for law school tuition.

I think the state schools that offer significant discounts for in state students that also have 75% of their class or more from in state won't be affected too much. There will always be a need for local state and regional schools that are state supported. These schools don't depend on questionable programs like Grad Plus to survive. Agreed that it approaches the level of a crime. It's ridiculous

I don't think many (any?)schools are in that situation but I haven't looked closely. Maybe CUNY

University of Washington definitely fits the bill.

University of Washington costs $31,962 per year (in-state) and full-time: $44,124 per year (out-of-state), and last I saw, was fairly stingy with scholarships. How is that not dependent on Grad Plus?

I agree with Npret - even if in-state students are getting a discount from out-of-state rates, it's still pretty damn expensive.

I'm saying University of Washington offers significant discounts on in-state tuition and takes about 70% of their class from Washington.

IBut yeah, 32K/year is still pretty expensive.

A. Nony Mouse wrote: University of Washington costs $31,962 per year (in-state) and full-time: $44,124 per year (out-of-state), and last I saw, was fairly stingy with scholarships. How is that not dependent on Grad Plus?

I agree with Npret - even if in-state students are getting a discount from out-of-state rates, it's still pretty damn expensive.

bc stafford subsidized and unsubsidized should cover most of that comfortably for in state students. Grad Plus is mainly for folks borrowing well over $100k