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Why are COL estimates so high? In Canada, for my undergrad I probably spent 9-10k on non-tuition expenses a year. My understanding is that most things are cheaper in the States, am I missing something? I can't picture myself spending 20k+ a year on COL.

Edit: Not a frugal brag, srs

do you plan on living somewhere, keeping the lights and internet on and buying food?

anyriotgirl wrote:do you plan on living somewhere, keeping the lights and internet on and buying food?

I like all three of those things. utilities internet and food are all cheaper, rent is a bit more expensive but thats it.

You'd be surprised at your cash burn--especially since you're most likely not working (at least for your first year). It also depends on the city you're talking about. In NYC, for example, you could blow through $20k in year pretty easily on living expenses. I went to LS in a pretty low COL city and I couldn't have done it on $9-10k. I didn't necessarily spend $20k but living expenses were more than I thought.

I would suggest just taking out the suggested amount for your first year and see how it goes (obviously continue to live frugally). If you have loan money left over (plus any cash you make over the summer, etc.) you can adjust downward how much you take out for the next two years. Obviously if you are really familiar with living in the area of your LS you could take out the proper amount for living expenses from the start, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. You don't want to get caught in a situation where you run out of money and need to be overly dependent on credit cards or some other high(er) interest option.

emciosn wrote:You'd be surprised at your cash burn--especially since you're most likely not working (at least for your first year). It also depends on the city you're talking about. In NYC, for example, you could blow through $20k in year pretty easily on living expenses. I went to LS in a pretty low COL city and I couldn't have done it on $9-10k. I didn't necessarily spend $20k but living expenses were more than I thought.

I would suggest just taking out the suggested amount for your first year and see how it goes (obviously continue to live frugally). If you have loan money left over (plus any cash you make over the summer, etc.) you can adjust downward how much you take out for the next two years. Obviously if you are really familiar with living in the area of your LS you could take out the proper amount for living expenses from the start, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. You don't want to get caught in a situation where you run out of money and need to be overly dependent on credit cards or some other high(er) interest option.

Yeah that's a good point.

Since I'm not a citizen I believe I have to demonstrate my ability to pay for all 3 years before I am allowed to enroll. Exchange rate is really screwing me right now so I'm trying to minimize costs as much as possible. For undergrad I lived with 5-6 roommates (not unusual here) is that something that law students do?

I think it just depends on the places you're comparing. Many law schools are in large cities and rent is high. Law students do live with roommates, but I think people are not likely to have, say, 6 people in a 3-BR place (if that's the sort of thing you were talking about) - more like 3 in a 3 BR. But you may well be able to live on less than the school's estimated COL, it's just an estimated average.

I lived alone (and later in LS with my SO) but, again, the city where I went to LS was fairly low COL--only had to pay like $700 or so for a two bedroom apartment. You certainly want to avoid distractions to the extent possible. If you've spent any time at all on these boards you know how important grades are these days, especially your first year. Living with 6-7 roommates seems like a lot and kind of like a recipe for disaster to me. Living alone was just worth it to me to avoid distractions. But I know of plenty of people that lived with roommates in LS without too many headaches. It would be best to maybe shoot for other law students so that they would understand your study schedule. Seems like the fewer the roommates the better too (probably wouldn't want more than a couple roommates).

Whatever you think you're going to spend on cost of living, you'll probably spend about 5-10K more.

So if you're planning to spend 10K, get ready for at least 15-20K.

I spent $1000 on OCI stuff alone lol

earthabides wrote:citizen I believe I have to demonstrate my ability to pay for all 3 years before I am allowed to enroll. Exchange rate is really screwing me right now so I'm trying to minimize costs as much as possible. For undergrad I lived with 5-6 roommates (not unusual here) is that something that law students do?

As a Canadian about to enter law school I can tell you some good and some bad news regarding this. First of all you only need to prove your ability to pay for the first year (although if you are getting a private LoC (which you probably should) they usually will only give 100k (I got more but circumstances got me the UofT number) and that is only available as 1/3 per year. The possibly bad news is that they require you to match their expected number, not what your personal plans are.

earthabides wrote:Why are COL estimates so high? In Canada, for my undergrad I probably spent 9-10k on non-tuition expenses a year. My understanding is that most things are cheaper in the States, am I missing something? I can't picture myself spending 20k+ a year on COL.

Edit: Not a frugal brag, srs

I cannot speak for Canada, but studying in Europe (Germany/France), one definitely notices the perks that students receive there:

Books are in most cases subsidized, so a semester's worth might run $150.
Transportation is completely subsidized, so the student pays nothing or $50 per year or semester.
Living near campus in university-sponsored dorms is cheap in Europe; $250-$350 per month (private real estate companies run most of the on-campus living in my experience in the U.S.).

Things like some foods/clothing/entertainment may be ever so marginally cheaper, but the U.S. does by and large not put any onus on the taxpayer to make a university student's cost-of-living bearable. Trust me. 9-10k a year will not get it done. Maybe in Waco, Texas, if you have your eyes set on Baylor University, can you come remotely close to achieving this.

I think the estimated COL's listed for all of the schools I have looked at are way too high --- for me. I live off very little every year, around $12,000. But that's because I've always been broke, so I know how to work it. Many of my friends would have a heart attack if you told them they could only live off that. Short story: it varies.

I'm on pace to keep CoL under $10k living in a pretty normally expensive city (i.e., not NYC, SF, LA, or DC). I could see getting it down to $8k if you really needed to save that extra money.

I'm doing a degree in the UK right now so I'll break down how much I'm spending:

1) Rent - right now i'm spending about 800 a month (US) but I'm way overpaying, and I'm trying to move out ASAP. I literally have a room with a shower, no kitchen so I also have to eat out ALL the time, though I'm eating super cheap (though not healthy.)

2) Food - Spending about 85 a week. Generally a max of 100 and a low of 70.

3) Drinks - About 10-20 a week. Don't go out often, and if I do, I try to get cheap stuff, even in Edinburgh, drinks are expensive as hell.

4) Random expenses - about another 20 or so a week. Most of these are one-off expenses, but that's still money.

5) My university has provided us with almost all the books we need to buy, and I'm a 10 minute walk from the library, so thankfully, I don't have to spend money on that. However, I have friends in other programs who have spent upwards of 150 bucks per book. Some classes require more than just 1 book.

Overall, I'm spending about 1k a month, which means I'm spending about 12 for the year. I'm living frugally, and costs will go down a fair amount once I move out of this place and start cooking my own meals and all that.

However, I lived most of my life in NYC - where rent alone would have been about 12k for any decent type of accommodation. Factor in going out with friends, books, taxi's, miscellaneous stuff and you can easily pay about 18k

in general, US estimates are purposely on the high side since students can only borrow federal loans based on the cost of attendance. btw: that COA has to cover the summer months, as well.

I spend a shitload of money on alcohol and plane tickets. Probably as much if not more than rent, which is already very high.

I save a lot of money on food, since we cook most of our own meals.

$20k/year is a conservative spending estimate for the average law student in a metro area. For small college towns obviously it's different.

..

Cost of living projections (these are supposed to be for nine months btw) sometimes vary a lot for law schools in the same place. For example, last year BU, New England, and HLS, which are all within a couple of miles of each other, had COL estimates of $18K, $22K, and $26K.

Given what rents are like in Boston now the $18K estimate seems awfully low.

Schools have conflicting incentives when it comes to these estimates. A high estimate allows students to borrow more, but of course it makes the estimated total cost of attendance look higher.

Just remember you're poor and you can spend under $20 K easily.

I would go in the opposite direction, and advise people to spend more their first year of law school. You have time to coupon clip and shop for deals when you work a regular 9-5, but given the importance of 1L, it really isn't worth it to worry about five or ten thousand dollars. The curve of a B to a B+ or B+ to A- is going to be so tight that an extra 10 minutes a day could have a tangible impact on your future. I'd recommend saving your last two years. If I could redo it, I'd splurge 1L then cut back.

The 9-month thing is also kind of BS. Very few people will get paying gigs their 1L summer, so you're better off assuming you'll need to stretch that money over the full year. $700/month in rent alone puts you at almost $8.5k, leaving you with less than $1000/month for everything else. Doable, but definitely not generous.

AReasonableMan wrote:I would go in the opposite direction, and advise people to spend more their first year of law school. You have time to coupon clip and shop for deals when you work a regular 9-5, but given the importance of 1L, it really isn't worth it to worry about five or ten thousand dollars. The curve of a B to a B+ or B+ to A- is going to be so tight that an extra 10 minutes a day could have a tangible impact on your future. I'd recommend saving your last two years. If I could redo it, I'd splurge 1L then cut back.

I really don't agree that an extra 10 minutes a day makes any difference. Except when you're really ramping up for exams, you have plenty of time 1L - the issue isn't that there isn't enough time to do the work, it's just figuring out how it all works.

earthabides wrote:Why are COL estimates so high? In Canada, for my undergrad I probably spent 9-10k on non-tuition expenses a year. My understanding is that most things are cheaper in the States, am I missing something? I can't picture myself spending 20k+ a year on COL.

Edit: Not a frugal brag, srs

I've seen the cost of living in given areas and also found it to be a joke. I assume they're referring to costs based on a given standard of living which students rarely maintain - that's my experience in undergrad, anyway. If you're fine living in a small apartment (potentially with room mates) and eating ramen noodles, you shouldn't end up spending anywhere close to what they have listed.

From what I understand most things are cheaper in the states, but not dramatically.