Top Law Schools

I know this has been asked somewhere before, but I didn't get the answer I was looking for.

I just got my non-scholarship letter in the mail saying there are no more funds available and I got nothing. I don't have a penny to my name and owe a bit for UG loans. My other options are Fordham (probably sticker), GWU (sticker), and Brooklyn Law (full scholarship). I will try negotiating for something but chances of that helping are slim to none. So now I'm crushed because I can't afford my dream school and I don't want to go to Brooklyn Law.

Does anyone out there think attending BU at sticker is worth it? Also, going for biglaw though I realize only 1/3 shot of getting that...

jjay wrote:I know this has been asked somewhere before, but I didn't get the answer I was looking for.

I just got my non-scholarship letter in the mail saying there are no more funds available and I got nothing. I don't have a penny to my name and owe a bit for UG loans. My other options are Fordham (probably sticker), GWU (sticker), and Brooklyn Law (full scholarship). I will try negotiating for something but chances of that helping are slim to none. So now I'm crushed because I can't afford my dream school and I don't want to go to Brooklyn Law.

Does anyone out there think attending BU at sticker is worth it? Also, going for biglaw though I realize only 1/3 shot of getting that...

Hmm, BU at sticker vs. Brooklyn with full tuition. Thats certainly not an easy choice. Are there stipulations on the Brooklyn scholarship?

dakatz wrote:

jjay wrote:I know this has been asked somewhere before, but I didn't get the answer I was looking for.

I just got my non-scholarship letter in the mail saying there are no more funds available and I got nothing. I don't have a penny to my name and owe a bit for UG loans. My other options are Fordham (probably sticker), GWU (sticker), and Brooklyn Law (full scholarship). I will try negotiating for something but chances of that helping are slim to none. So now I'm crushed because I can't afford my dream school and I don't want to go to Brooklyn Law.

Does anyone out there think attending BU at sticker is worth it? Also, going for biglaw though I realize only 1/3 shot of getting that...

Hmm, BU at sticker vs. Brooklyn with full tuition. Thats certainly not an easy choice. Are there stipulations on the Brooklyn scholarship?

yes, top 50%

Thats really dangerous. You lose all of it if you hit bottom half?

dakatz wrote:Thats really dangerous. You lose all of it if you hit bottom half?

no i think just a portion of it, though i'm not clear on the details, mostly because i wasn't planning on attending until getting nothing from BU. it might even be a top 40% stip, i'll have to go back and check

BU is definitely not worth sticker. Cornell is not worth sticker to put things into perspective.

Can you defer a year? Perhaps financial aid will be available next year, or you could reapply.

cinephile wrote:Can you defer a year? Perhaps financial aid will be available next year, or you could reapply.

I absolutely cannot wait a year, I've tried the whole retake, reapply thing and it just didn't work out for me.

Then if I were you, I'd take Brooklyn. Taking on that much in loans at BU is not worth it.

jjay wrote:

cinephile wrote:Can you defer a year? Perhaps financial aid will be available next year, or you could reapply.

I absolutely cannot wait a year, I've tried the whole retake, reapply thing and it just didn't work out for me.

Well, you take a gamble either way. At BU, and at most T25-30 schools, it seems like only the top 1/3 of the class are really competitive for the types of positions you mention you are after. That isn't to say that everyone else is unemployed. BU is a solid school and most of the class will at least have something, but I don't know exactly what the process is aside from pounding pavement and trying to find something outside OCI. As for Brooklyn, you could very well keep your scholarship but still miss out on a big firm job. I'm imagine something around the top 10-15% at Brooklyn are competitive for those positions, but that is just my guesstimation. I think a good idea is to not set a bar too high or bank on something that is so unsure. I'd be open to more than just big firm jobs if I were you. Because if you are not, this decision could turn out life-alteringly bad for you. Not saying that it will. But it certainly could

Brooklyn Law if you cannot wait until next year.

jjay wrote:So now I'm crushed because I can't afford my dream school and I don't want to go to Brooklyn Law.

Does anyone out there think attending BU at sticker is worth it? Also, going for biglaw though I realize only 1/3 shot of getting that...

If I were you, I'd go to my dream school.

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I'd take the Brooklyn full ride and drop out if I'm not top 40% (or whatever the stip actually is).. If you aren't top 40% you probably won't get a job out of there anyway

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aliarrow wrote:Bear in mind a Brooklyn Full Ride is still about 80k after that New York COL...

Boston CoL isn't cheap either though. And I think you go well under 80k, esp. if you have a roommate and don't need a palace, there are some reasonable values in Brooklyn in particular.

Two things to consider: (i) if you don't get biglaw out of BU (and I'm not convinced top 1/3 is enough anymore -- used to be, maybe now it's top 20-25) then you will get CRUSHED with 220k in debt and (ii) if you are confident of top 1/3 in BU, then top 40% and keeping that scholly at BK shouldn't be a problem (and depending on how high you get up the ladder you can always transfer to a Fordham, BU, BC, etc.

Full disclosure, I'm very debt averse and the thought of so much debt is terrifying just to htink about. If you aren't willing to retake and reapply I'd be reluctant to give up that scholly money. This comes with a BIG caveat -- I've heard anecdotal stories that Brooklyn really does make it tough to keep that scholly (lots of students get one, section stacking, etc.) so just keep that in mind.

If you can get any $ out of BU, then I think that is the choice...if not, I'd lean slightly towards BK, but wouldn't think it was the world's worst idea to come to BU.

I'm on 15k scholarship per year here, which is still a lot of debt. This is how I thought about it. People gamble huge sums of money throughout life on many things, businesses, marriages, homes... if you have to gamble $150,000.... might as well do it on yourself, right?

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Cupidity wrote:I'm on 15k scholarship per year here, which is still a lot of debt. This is how I thought about it. People gamble huge sums of money throughout life on many things, businesses, marriages, homes... if you have to gamble $150,000.... might as well do it on yourself, right?

I agree with this, and maybe it's just my debt averse nature talking but 15k/yr scholly and sticker is a substantial difference -- you're talking what, 60-70k extra once you consider the compounding interest, etc.? That's a decent chunk of change.

That said, I agree that it is good to gamble on yourself if you're going to do it.

I also disagree with aliaarrow re: possibility of making six figures in your 20s -- coming from the finance world I can tell you that there are PLENTY of people making six figures in their 20s (and it's not b/c of luck,entrepeneurship or birth).

Edit: That 30% number is placement in NLJ250 - that's correct. But being top 30% is still easier said than done.

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[quote="aliarrow"]

And I don't know where you get the 220k figure for sticker at BU, sticker, with full COL loans, is 180k.


First of all, schools CoA numbers are almost always over a 9mo period - so if you get a good summer job you can cover your expenses for those extra 3mos. If not, you will break even at best.

That aside, I think the actual CoA is probably closer to 200k (I was overestimating a bit)...the 180k # they provide on their website is, in my opinion, misleading -- as an example, room and board is predicted to be 12k. This is doable but based on properties I've seen, essentially requires you to will live with at least one roommate or in a huge dump. Likewise, for non-new england students the only way I can see to keep transportation costs at $1,000 is never to go home. I could go on, I just think people should take the #'s schools provide with a grain of salt (all schools, not just BU).

I think the real issue is that if you go in thinking your CoA will be 200k, or even 180k you might be in for a rude awakening once you realize that by the time you've paid it all off you just paid $300k+ (obv could be more or less depending on time horizon, but just to make a point).

EDIT: I should also note that their CoA doesn't include medical insurance -- I think many applicants (myself included) will need to pay this as we aren't under 26 (or won't be for the full 3 years) and aren't covered by our parents. There is another $1,914 or $2,647 per year.

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I understand - just pointing out that principal balances don't actually give you a clear picture of what law school costs.

Also, I agree that you can't take over budget -- but I think most people have savings, earnings, etc. that they will use (to one extent or another). I believe this must be factored into your cost of attendance to get a good picture of your true financial situation (i.e. maybe you can only take 180k in loans, but if your actual out of pocket costs are more than alloted you will have to pay them from somewhere).

Also agree re: transportation, but am pointing out that people should be careful not to assume that the amount the schools set aside is sufficient. Based on your own calculations only $292 is left for other travel expenses (cabs, flights home, call-back interview following OCI, etc.)

P.S. - "you're a college student, live like one" -- not really the same as law school where many people are coming from careers in the 'real world' and may have families, SO's and the like. Living in a rowdy neighborhood of mostly undergradutes that party every night isn't exactly conducive to success in law school (solely my personal opinion). In fact, my entire point is that the amount of $ theyproject requires you to live in this way and I think it is a bit ridiculous.

P.P.S. - Thanks for the calc.

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BU is worth it. Job prospects are way better than brooklyn law. This isn't a close decision.