Top Law Schools

Also just want to add fliptrip that this is really amazing and a great resource for people on this board.

fliptrip wrote:

180kickflip wrote:Berkeley's entry says that the program covers all loans eligible for IBR, but does that include undergrad/ other grad school debt? I'm expecting to finish school with more undergrad/grad debt than law debt, so that'd be a big difference for me =/

The answer is yes, but Berkeley will not consider any borrowing that's beyond their 3 year COA in LRAP support. So, if you can roll everything together and end up under B's 3 year COA total, then you're good. Otherwise, you'll have to make up the gap.

nice. I'm hoping that I won't need to use it, but the inclusion of non-law debt and dependent modifications would make Berkeley's plan pretty great for me

180kickflip wrote:

fliptrip wrote:

180kickflip wrote:Berkeley's entry says that the program covers all loans eligible for IBR, but does that include undergrad/ other grad school debt? I'm expecting to finish school with more undergrad/grad debt than law debt, so that'd be a big difference for me =/

The answer is yes, but Berkeley will not consider any borrowing that's beyond their 3 year COA in LRAP support. So, if you can roll everything together and end up under B's 3 year COA total, then you're good. Otherwise, you'll have to make up the gap.

nice. I'm hoping that I won't need to use it, but the inclusion of non-law debt and dependent modifications would make Berkeley's plan pretty great for me

Right on, man! If I remember correctly, you aren't going to be borrowing anything more than living expenses, right?

DCfilterDC wrote:Also just want to add fliptrip that this is really amazing and a great resource for people on this board.

+1. My previous comment was made in the middle of the night, and I wasn't awake enough to realize I shouldn't have suggested a correction without first giving a commendation for the great work in creating this eminently useful spreadsheet.

Great work, Flip! This deserves a sticky, I'd say.

In the words of my hero and spiritual mentor, Lt. Commander Worf, the honor is to serve.

Doesn't Northwestern require you to have a qualifying job IMmediately on graduation?

Please be careful about this. I am not sure that if you get a PI job from Northwestern after bar passage or a year after graduation that it will count.

I don't know the answer to that question but I've noted couple of times on these forums that NW requires the job to be right after graduation. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or looking at old data.

It's important to know when the school requires that you have a job. Only a couple let you move in and out of LRAP and even then there are conditions.

I think the idea you can apply anytime within 10 years at some schools may conflict with the timing of getting a job.

I'm not sure how you can address this.

For reference:
Eligibility for LRAP

Any graduate who starts work immediately after graduation or after a clerkship as an attorney or manager in any government or non-profit agency is eligible for LRAP.

From here:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... naid/lrap/

fliptrip wrote:

180kickflip wrote:

fliptrip wrote:

180kickflip wrote:Berkeley's entry says that the program covers all loans eligible for IBR, but does that include undergrad/ other grad school debt? I'm expecting to finish school with more undergrad/grad debt than law debt, so that'd be a big difference for me =/

The answer is yes, but Berkeley will not consider any borrowing that's beyond their 3 year COA in LRAP support. So, if you can roll everything together and end up under B's 3 year COA total, then you're good. Otherwise, you'll have to make up the gap.

nice. I'm hoping that I won't need to use it, but the inclusion of non-law debt and dependent modifications would make Berkeley's plan pretty great for me

Right on, man! If I remember correctly, you aren't going to be borrowing anything more than living expenses, right?

Yeah. I could probably make B work without taking on any new debt, but at this point, my plan is to take out the max Stafford loans just in case we have a family emergency or something. At least, that's what I'll do for year 1. If I find that our budget is adequate, my fiancee finds a job quick, or I land a 1L SA, maybe I won't take out any loans for 2L or 3L. Only thing about B that doesn't look perfect for me is the 3 year window. Really wish it was 5+ for flexibility.

Tls2016 wrote:For reference:
Eligibility for LRAP

Any graduate who starts work immediately after graduation or after a clerkship as an attorney or manager in any government or non-profit agency is eligible for LRAP.

From here:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... naid/lrap/

I think the word immediately is ambiguous and unfortunately NW doesn't provide more detailed policies like many other schools in which this sort of term would be defined better. I think for now, leaving that in the realm of things to discuss with your school directly seems to be the cleanest way to handle it.

fliptrip wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:For reference:
Eligibility for LRAP

Any graduate who starts work immediately after graduation or after a clerkship as an attorney or manager in any government or non-profit agency is eligible for LRAP.

From here:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... naid/lrap/

I think the word immediately is ambiguous and unfortunately NW doesn't provide more detailed policies like many other schools in which this sort of term would be defined better. I think for now, leaving that in the realm of things to discuss with your school directly seems to be the cleanest way to handle it.

Ok. I don't think it is ambiguous. They say immediately unless you a clerkship. I remember this being an issue a while ago but I don't recall where I saw it being discussed.

Maybe some NU grads could weigh in? I recall @rinkrat is doing PI but she may not be on LRAP.

Tls2016 wrote:

fliptrip wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:For reference:
Eligibility for LRAP

Any graduate who starts work immediately after graduation or after a clerkship as an attorney or manager in any government or non-profit agency is eligible for LRAP.

From here:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... naid/lrap/

I think the word immediately is ambiguous and unfortunately NW doesn't provide more detailed policies like many other schools in which this sort of term would be defined better. I think for now, leaving that in the realm of things to discuss with your school directly seems to be the cleanest way to handle it.

Ok. I don't think it is ambiguous. They say immediately unless you a clerkship. I remember this being an issue a while ago but I don't recall where I saw it being discussed.

Maybe some NU grads could weigh in?

No need. You've made it clear. So, if you do something other than clerk or work as a manager for a govt/non-profit for two years and then end up in something LRAP eligible, you're out it would seem, right? The phrase manager for a gov't/non-profit seems to not require that work be law-related, so you could be a non-law related administrator in a school district and go into LRAP after that?

Motion to sticky

Fliptrip you are a hero.

Seconded motion to sticky.

fliptrip wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:

fliptrip wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:For reference:
Eligibility for LRAP

Any graduate who starts work immediately after graduation or after a clerkship as an attorney or manager in any government or non-profit agency is eligible for LRAP.

From here:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... naid/lrap/

I think the word immediately is ambiguous and unfortunately NW doesn't provide more detailed policies like many other schools in which this sort of term would be defined better. I think for now, leaving that in the realm of things to discuss with your school directly seems to be the cleanest way to handle it.

Ok. I don't think it is ambiguous. They say immediately unless you a clerkship. I remember this being an issue a while ago but I don't recall where I saw it being discussed.

Maybe some NU grads could weigh in?

No need. You've made it clear. So, if you do something other than clerk or work as a manager for a govt/non-profit for two years and then end up in something LRAP eligible, you're out it would seem, right? The phrase manager for a gov't/non-profit seems to not require that work be law-related, so you could be a non-law related administrator in a school district and go into LRAP after that?

Yes to the first I think. I remember the first question being an issue back when no one was getting jobs.
Not sure about the second. I think the committee has to approve jobs.

Correction on Columbia's eligible employment:

"Legal services for the poor will ordinarily mean work for a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization providing
legal services to a specifically defined, low-income population, but may include private practice
where the practice is limited to clients comparable to those served by government-supported
and non-profit legal services organizations. The Law School will determine whether or not a
particular job meets these qualifications."

It's not just Non-Profits/Government work.

Nice!

Minor corrections to UVA:
1. Classes of 2013 and later are on VLFP II, not VLFP.
2.For the application timing, you have to start the qualifying employment within two years of graduation or within two years of finishing a judicial clerkship that was started directly after graduation, and you have to apply for benefits immediately upon starting qualifying employment.
3. The program duration is 10 years from the date you enter the program, not 10 years from graduation.

Question about asset allowances (because I am largely financially illiterate):

Looking NYU's limits, it says that I cannot accrue more than $20,000 in assets during the program. So how do the following hypotheticals work out?

A. I win a small sweepstakes of $50,000. I put the money in a savings account.

B. I win the same small sweepstakes and within the same tax year invest the money in a mutual fund.

C. Same money. This time I use it as the down payment for a condo within the same tax year.

Do all three of those result in me being taken out of the program? Or is there a difference based on how the money ends up being reported on my taxes?

cavalier1138 wrote:Question about asset allowances (because I am largely financially illiterate):

Looking NYU's limits, it says that I cannot accrue more than $20,000 in assets during the program. So how do the following hypotheticals work out?

A. I win a small sweepstakes of $50,000. I put the money in a savings account.

B. I win the same small sweepstakes and within the same tax year invest the money in a mutual fund.

C. Same money. This time I use it as the down payment for a condo within the same tax year.

Do all three of those result in me being taken out of the program? Or is there a difference based on how the money ends up being reported on my taxes?

Those are all assets. There isn't any exclusion outside of retirement savings.

Tls2016 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Question about asset allowances (because I am largely financially illiterate):

Looking NYU's limits, it says that I cannot accrue more than $20,000 in assets during the program. So how do the following hypotheticals work out?

A. I win a small sweepstakes of $50,000. I put the money in a savings account.

B. I win the same small sweepstakes and within the same tax year invest the money in a mutual fund.

C. Same money. This time I use it as the down payment for a condo within the same tax year.

Do all three of those result in me being taken out of the program? Or is there a difference based on how the money ends up being reported on my taxes?

Those are all assets. There isn't any exclusion outside of retirement savings.

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure I understood how that'll factor in.

cavalier1138 wrote:

Tls2016 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Question about asset allowances (because I am largely financially illiterate):

Looking NYU's limits, it says that I cannot accrue more than $20,000 in assets during the program. So how do the following hypotheticals work out?

A. I win a small sweepstakes of $50,000. I put the money in a savings account.

B. I win the same small sweepstakes and within the same tax year invest the money in a mutual fund.

C. Same money. This time I use it as the down payment for a condo within the same tax year.

Do all three of those result in me being taken out of the program? Or is there a difference based on how the money ends up being reported on my taxes?

Those are all assets. There isn't any exclusion outside of retirement savings.

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure I understood how that'll factor in.

What I don't think is clear is what happens if you use a windfall to pay down your loans? It's a one time income increase. It is worth asking NYU and clarifying what happens if you inherit a little money or some other windfall happens. It would be worth asking about buying a house as well, what if you got a zero down payment place? That way you haven't accumulated savings for a down payment.
I think $20,000 is a low number.

One important thing to keep in mind (just in case you guys aren't) re that 20k number from NYU is more of a net worth amount. Let's say you owe 100k, and like you said win the sweepstakes of 50k. You'd still be fine, since you're still at -50k overall.

Citation: "Participants must have total net worth (assets minus liabilities) of less than $20,000."

That's my understanding, anyway. Maybe there's another section which mentions you just can't accumulate any assets over 20k, but I could not find it on their LRAP program details page.

However, if you search "monopoly money LRAP TLS" on Google, you'll find a thread wherein a user talks about NYU forcing you to use your assets before you can even be on LRAP - a sort of "expected student contribution" thing. I could not find that section either on NYU's program page, but perhaps it is buried in the fine print somewhere.

somethingelse55 wrote:One important thing to keep in mind (just in case you guys aren't) re that 20k number from NYU is more of a net worth amount. Let's say you owe 100k, and like you said win the sweepstakes of 50k. You'd still be fine, since you're still at -50k overall.

Citation: "Participants must have total net worth (assets minus liabilities) of less than $20,000."

That's my understanding, anyway. Maybe there's another section which mentions you just can't accumulate any assets over 20k, but I could not find it on their LRAP program details page.

However, if you search "monopoly money LRAP TLS" on Google, you'll find a thread wherein a user talks about NYU forcing you to use your assets before you can even be on LRAP - a sort of "expected student contribution" thing. I could not find that section either on NYU's program page, but perhaps it is buried in the fine print somewhere.

Thanks. I was going off the question which was about accruing assets not net worth.
I still find all this complicated and I hope people run scenarios by their schools. With negatively amortizing debt, you ma b able to save or inherit a boatload of cash before your net worth is positive.im just questioning how NYU would apply it I the real world if your grandparents leave you $100k but your net worth is still negative $50,000 or more.

I don't see it on the website so maybe they changed it, but when I was at an NYU LRAP session last year they said that there's an amount students must contribute, I believe it was around 15k, hopefully someone can confirm. So not only can you not have more than 20k in savings you also have to contribute some minimum in order to get LRAP benefits

NYU's page doesn't mention anything at all about accruing assets as far as I can tell. It only talks about the net worth thing that I quoted a portion of above.

But then it also says somewhere on that page something to the effect of, "This is not the entirety of the program's terms."

But I completely agree. The bottom line is: everybody that is seriously considering attending a school and utilizing its LRAP needs to contact the school directly and ask them as many clarifying questions as relate to his/her situation.

EDIT: In reply to DC's post above, yeah this goes along with what the user was saying on that "monopoly money" thread. Anyone considering NYU's LRAP that has assets should really contact the school directly.