Chances at HYS? Forum

[geoanthem]

If you pin all your hopes on HYS, you may be in for some disappointment. Is there any reason you prefer these schools besides the prestige associated with the degree? Because that is not a good enough reason IMO and who knows where you will be in a couple of years in regards to gpa and lsat

[Skadden Stairs]

sex. have some.

[heyguys]

I think the primary danger in considering HYS so heavily at this point in your college career is that you're shutting out other potential career paths. Are you sure that you want to commit to 3 more years of schooling after undergrad? Are you sure you want to be a lawyer at all? Are you sure you don't want to do something like engineering/actuarial math/school teacher/etc? Let me tell you, I'm starting at YLS this fall, and I still ask myself all of those questions every few days. You're going to change a lot during undergrad--don't shut that out because of some dumb pipe dream to go to Harvard or Yale Law. The whole ambition thing leads nowhere if you let it control your predilections and lifestyle--if it's what you want, it'll develop organically.

I guess I could condense that into the suggestion that you not peg yourself as a future lawyer too quickly.

Unless something drastic happens, I'm positive. I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7 years old. Quite frankly, it's probably the only thing that's remained constant since then other than my legal name. Regardless of the major I graduate with (which I understand is definitely subject to change this early on), I know I want HYS for law school upon graduation.

I'm going into "unsolicited life advice" mode: I guess that what I'm getting at is that it's very rarely that people really know what they want to do at age 7, or hell--at age 21 for that matter. To say you've just wanted to be a lawyer since age 7 denotes at least one of two things, either of which should be troubling--1) a lack of intellectual curiosity 2) a lack of serious thinking about the subject. All I'm saying is to approach the next couple of years as a way to see what's really out there. Trust me, at 22 and as a graduating senior in undergrad, there are a TON of career options that I never fully considered, and I definitely regret that. That said, I'm at the point where I've chosen my path, am interested in the law, and will go down that road to wherever it takes me. Give yourself an honest chance at letting your interests, goals, and ambitions wander a bit. It's scary to question something that you've held for so long, but that's just part of life, and you'll be glad you did it later instead of roboticly approaching career choice as "it's something I've wanted to do all my life." There's a reason that, for instance, adcoms don't like that attitude--it might reflect well on your commitment to the law, but it also reflects a lot about your intellectual maturity. Like I said, you might be a special case, but....you would need to ask yourself why you are so different from the rest of us. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

[mallard]

I'm not sure why everyone here is talking down to you. Just wait a year before worrying about the LSAT, and be sure to use college to explore your interests.

[TonyDigital]

sex. have some.

+1

[hotburrito]

I think the primary danger in considering HYS so heavily at this point in your college career is that you're shutting out other potential career paths. Are you sure that you want to commit to 3 more years of schooling after undergrad? Are you sure you want to be a lawyer at all? Are you sure you don't want to do something like engineering/actuarial math/school teacher/etc? Let me tell you, I'm starting at YLS this fall, and I still ask myself all of those questions every few days. You're going to change a lot during undergrad--don't shut that out because of some dumb pipe dream to go to Harvard or Yale Law. The whole ambition thing leads nowhere if you let it control your predilections and lifestyle--if it's what you want, it'll develop organically.

I guess I could condense that into the suggestion that you not peg yourself as a future lawyer too quickly.

-1. If it becomes obvious down the line that you don't want to go down the law school path, by all means don't do it, but don't start doubting yourself because some people think you are "too ambitious." I remember talking to my academic counselor sophomore year about going to grad or law school. She told me to reconsider because a lot of people regret it down the line. That's B.S. underachievers say to feel better about themselves. You are fully capable of doing this. Don't settle for any less than what you most desire. If ambition is what makes you happy, then set the bar as high as you can and reach it every time. Law school may not be what you want to do, but make sure whatever it is you decide to do... you do your best.

i would encourage an ambitious freshman to strive to do whatever s/he is doing well, whether it be a problem set or a critical paper or a keg stand, but i would caution against adopting the kind of tunnel vision "must do this in order to be a lawyer" mentality reading these boards too often might encourage. don't pick your major or your extracurricular activities or your friends just for their getting-into-law-school utility, don't take classes just because you think they will pad your gpa or help you on your lsat, don't go sniffing around for some kind narrative of personal tragedy to bulk up your ps with (this is a personal pet peeve), don't spend time studying for the lsat two years before you are ever likely to take it, etc. if you prioritize being a good person you will probably end up as a good law school applicant anyway.

(can you tell that the prospect of graduation is freaking me out?)

[jacktripper]

I think the primary danger in considering HYS so heavily at this point in your college career is that you're shutting out other potential career paths. Are you sure that you want to commit to 3 more years of schooling after undergrad? Are you sure you want to be a lawyer at all? Are you sure you don't want to do something like engineering/actuarial math/school teacher/etc? Let me tell you, I'm starting at YLS this fall, and I still ask myself all of those questions every few days. You're going to change a lot during undergrad--don't shut that out because of some dumb pipe dream to go to Harvard or Yale Law. The whole ambition thing leads nowhere if you let it control your predilections and lifestyle--if it's what you want, it'll develop organically.

I guess I could condense that into the suggestion that you not peg yourself as a future lawyer too quickly.

Unless something drastic happens, I'm positive. I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7 years old. Quite frankly, it's probably the only thing that's remained constant since then other than my legal name. Regardless of the major I graduate with (which I understand is definitely subject to change this early on), I know I want HYS for law school upon graduation.

I'm going into "unsolicited life advice" mode: I guess that what I'm getting at is that it's very rarely that people really know what they want to do at age 7, or hell--at age 21 for that matter. To say you've just wanted to be a lawyer since age 7 denotes at least one of two things, either of which should be troubling--1) a lack of intellectual curiosity 2) a lack of serious thinking about the subject. All I'm saying is to approach the next couple of years as a way to see what's really out there. Trust me, at 22 and as a graduating senior in undergrad, there are a TON of career options that I never fully considered, and I definitely regret that. That said, I'm at the point where I've chosen my path, am interested in the law, and will go down that road to wherever it takes me. Give yourself an honest chance at letting your interests, goals, and ambitions wander a bit. It's scary to question something that you've held for so long, but that's just part of life, and you'll be glad you did it later instead of roboticly approaching career choice as "it's something I've wanted to do all my life." There's a reason that, for instance, adcoms don't like that attitude--it might reflect well on your commitment to the law, but it also reflects a lot about your intellectual maturity. Like I said, you might be a special case, but....you would need to ask yourself why you are so different from the rest of us. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

cause you're the best! Don't listen to heyguys or hotburrito. They are obviously intimidated by your passion and commitment. They wish they had your commitment to law school. You are going places. Don't let others distract you. Focus.

[kjunfood]

I'm not sure why everyone here is talking down to you. Just wait a year before worrying about the LSAT, and be sure to use college to explore your interests.

+1

When you do get around to the LSAT, like everyone else said, 165 or higher 160's would make you very competitive for HYS (Assuming the high GPA you projected and your URM status).

Resume and personal statement and letters of rec...i dont know as much about. I don't even know how much they matter in relation to your numbers. That being said, I've seen some damned amazing resumes on this forum that put mine to shame. Best advice I can give is to look at things that pique your interest, participate in them, and then dedicate to the ones that are able to capture your interest.

Good luck--

[kurama20]

If you pin all your hopes on HYS, you may be in for some disappointment. Is there any reason you prefer these schools besides the prestige associated with the degree? Because that is not a good enough reason IMO and who knows where you will be in a couple of years in regards to gpa and lsat

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that. OP, from one AA male to another, stay focused on HYS take the easiest possible classes you can so that you can get as many A's as possible and then do well on the LSAT (if you get a 3.8 or higher well will only need to be something like a 163+, 165+ being a deadlock for amazing schools). Even if you do change your mind about what you want to do, if you go to HYS that will still be better than 90% of the things you could do otherwise. To be honest unless you go to top undergrad (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Berkeley, Duke etc.) then you can forget about getting some great job straight out of undergrad. Seriously you can forget it. These people are talking like there are so many options for you out of undergrad, but that's because many of them go to the aforementioned type of schools were you can do those things. If you're going to an average school, you can forget it. STAY focused, don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Get that 3.8 GPA take an LSAT prep course get a 165 and go to damn Stanford/Harvard and enjoy yourself.

-1. If it becomes obvious down the line that you don't want to go down the law school path, by all means don't do it, but don't start doubting yourself because some people think you are "too ambitious." I remember talking to my academic counselor sophomore year about going to grad or law school. She told me to reconsider because a lot of people regret it down the line. That's B.S. underachievers say to feel better about themselves. You are fully capable of doing this. Don't settle for any less than what you most desire. If ambition is what makes you happy, then set the bar as high as you can and reach it every time. Law school may not be what you want to do, but make sure whatever it is you decide to do... you do your best.

+1000000000

I'm going into "unsolicited life advice" mode: I guess that what I'm getting at is that it's very rarely that people really know what they want to do at age 7, or hell--at age 21 for that matter. To say you've just wanted to be a lawyer since age 7 denotes at least one of two things, either of which should be troubling--1) a lack of intellectual curiosity 2) a lack of serious thinking about the subject. All I'm saying is to approach the next couple of years as a way to see what's really out there. Trust me, at 22 and as a graduating senior in undergrad, there are a TON of career options that I never fully considered, and I definitely regret that. That said, I'm at the point where I've chosen my path, am interested in the law, and will go down that road to wherever it takes me. Give yourself an honest chance at letting your interests, goals, and ambitions wander a bit. It's scary to question something that you've held for so long, but that's just part of life, and you'll be glad you did it later instead of roboticly approaching career choice as "it's something I've wanted to do all my life." There's a reason that, for instance, adcoms don't like that attitude--it might reflect well on your commitment to the law, but it also reflects a lot about your intellectual maturity. Like I said, you might be a special case, but....you would need to ask yourself why you are so different from the rest of us. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

OP PLEASE IGNORE this! I don't want to see another young brother's path messed up because of bad advice. You want to be a lawyer, you want to go to HYS, do it and don't listen to the negative comments! You have no idea how many doors going to HYS will open for you. Even before you get there doors will open. Check out this program, for minority students going to TOP (notice I capped top, because it's only for top law school future attendees) law schools the summer before you attend. You get 1300-1800 a week and you get to connect to top firms. http://www.seo-usa.org/career/page.aspx?pageID=96

[geoanthem]

Kurama a 164 is still the 91st percentile... I'm not saying he can't do it. All I'm saying is don't get into the Harvard or bust mentality so early into college, because it could become a huge letdown.

[hotburrito]

To be honest unless you go to top undergrad (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Berkeley, Duke etc.) then you can forget about getting some great job straight out of undergrad. Seriously you can forget it. These people are talking like there are so many options for you out of undergrad, but that's because many of them go to the aforementioned type of schools were you can do those things.

i'm not talking about jobs, i'm talking about learning. undergrad is pretty much the last time you will ever have the opportunity to take classes in... every subject not directly related to your career.

[jacktripper]

To be honest unless you go to top undergrad (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Berkeley, Duke etc.) then you can forget about getting some great job straight out of undergrad. Seriously you can forget it. These people are talking like there are so many options for you out of undergrad, but that's because many of them go to the aforementioned type of schools were you can do those things.

i'm not talking about jobs, i'm talking about learning. undergrad is pretty much the last time you will ever have the opportunity to take classes in... every subject not directly related to your career.

No one is denying the merits of learning. He has the rest of his life to read books and learn. I'm talking about going down a path that will allow him to do something worthwhile and make money at the same time. He needs a profession.

[jco]

ust be sure you take the easiest classes you can. Find out which professors are the easiest. I used ratemyprofessors.com back in the day, but I don't know if the kids use that site anymore

.


This is the best advice anyone on this thread has given you so far. You need to remember that law schools really only care about GPA, LSAT, and ethnicity. You want to get that GPA as high as you can. From here on out you should only take the easiest teachers and easiest classes that you can. Then get a good LSAT score. That's the key to getting into a top law school. Ignore everyone who tells you to pick teachers who "are good teachers and you learn a lot from them, but they are hard graders' in the end this won't do a damn thing for you except lower your GPA and thus lower your chances at HYS. You should be taking classes easy enough that the lowest grade you get every semester is an A-, maybe a few B+ but even that's pushing it. Good Luck!

This advice might help you get into HYS, but I wouldn't recommend it. OP, you're obviously doing well enough in your classes to have a strong GPA without watering down the courses you take. I would recommend you use college to learn, to become a better thinker, and to be able to bring a unique intellectual perspective to your law school courses. You'll get more out of law school this way.

Also, speaking from personal experience, you can get into HYS with a slightly lower GPA if you can demonstrate that you have gotten something worthwhile, intellectually speaking, from undergrad. If your life goals consist entirely of 1) Get into HYS 2) Make lots of $$ afterward, then you should probably follow kurama's advice. If you want to get into HYS because you want to do something interesting with your JD and those places offer the best opportunities, then I would recommend you take a different approach and choose courses that enrich your life.

All this is to say that I don't think you're on a bad track at all right now, but you don't have to sacrifice your undergrad experience for the sake of getting into law school. Just stick with it and keep up the good work. Good luck.

[jacktripper]

ust be sure you take the easiest classes you can. Find out which professors are the easiest. I used ratemyprofessors.com back in the day, but I don't know if the kids use that site anymore

.


This is the best advice anyone on this thread has given you so far. You need to remember that law schools really only care about GPA, LSAT, and ethnicity. You want to get that GPA as high as you can. From here on out you should only take the easiest teachers and easiest classes that you can. Then get a good LSAT score. That's the key to getting into a top law school. Ignore everyone who tells you to pick teachers who "are good teachers and you learn a lot from them, but they are hard graders' in the end this won't do a damn thing for you except lower your GPA and thus lower your chances at HYS. You should be taking classes easy enough that the lowest grade you get every semester is an A-, maybe a few B+ but even that's pushing it. Good Luck!

This advice might help you get into HYS, but I wouldn't recommend it. OP, you're obviously doing well enough in your classes to have a strong GPA without watering down the courses you take. I would recommend you use college to learn, to become a better thinker, and to be able to bring a unique intellectual perspective to your law school courses. You'll get more out of law school this way.

Also, speaking from personal experience, you can get into HYS with a slightly lower GPA if you can demonstrate that you have gotten something worthwhile, intellectually speaking, from undergrad. If your life goals consist entirely of 1) Get into HYS 2) Make lots of $$ afterward, then you should probably follow kurama's advice. If you want to get into HYS because you want to do something interesting with your JD and those places offer the best opportunities, then I would recommend you take a different approach and choose courses that enrich your life.

All this is to say that I don't think you're on a bad track at all right now, but you don't have to sacrifice your undergrad experience for the sake of getting into law school. Just stick with it and keep up the good work. Good luck.

Do the exact opposite of this. The guy wants to set high goals for his career. Is that so wrong? I just don't get the posters extolling the virtues of "learning." What happened to instilling ambition and high standards into young people. The guy can read philosophy books and discuss them at book club meeting the rest of his life. He only has one shot at HYS and he needs to make the most of it if he is going to have a chance. OP is asking for advice on how to get into HYS and taking easier classes to get a higher GPA needs to be part of his plan.

[heyguys]

To be honest unless you go to top undergrad (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Berkeley, Duke etc.) then you can forget about getting some great job straight out of undergrad. Seriously you can forget it. These people are talking like there are so many options for you out of undergrad, but that's because many of them go to the aforementioned type of schools were you can do those things.

i'm not talking about jobs, i'm talking about learning. undergrad is pretty much the last time you will ever have the opportunity to take classes in... every subject not directly related to your career.

No one is denying the merits of learning. He has the rest of his life to read books and learn. I'm talking about going down a path that will allow him to do something worthwhile and make money at the same time. He needs a profession.

I'm not saying that he definitely shouldn't be an attorney or that he shouldn't be ambitious at all--what I'm saying is that there are a lot of professions that "allow him to do something worthwhile and make money at the same time" outside of law, and that to have a "I've known what I want to do since I was 7" disposition doesn't say much about how much one has actually explored the vast array of opportunities out there.

[jw316]

I think the primary danger in considering HYS so heavily at this point in your college career is that you're shutting out other potential career paths. Are you sure that you want to commit to 3 more years of schooling after undergrad? Are you sure you want to be a lawyer at all? Are you sure you don't want to do something like engineering/actuarial math/school teacher/etc? Let me tell you, I'm starting at YLS this fall, and I still ask myself all of those questions every few days. You're going to change a lot during undergrad--don't shut that out because of some dumb pipe dream to go to Harvard or Yale Law. The whole ambition thing leads nowhere if you let it control your predilections and lifestyle--if it's what you want, it'll develop organically.

I guess I could condense that into the suggestion that you not peg yourself as a future lawyer too quickly.

Unless something drastic happens, I'm positive. I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7 years old. Quite frankly, it's probably the only thing that's remained constant since then other than my legal name. Regardless of the major I graduate with (which I understand is definitely subject to change this early on), I know I want HYS for law school upon graduation.

I'm going into "unsolicited life advice" mode: I guess that what I'm getting at is that it's very rarely that people really know what they want to do at age 7, or hell--at age 21 for that matter. To say you've just wanted to be a lawyer since age 7 denotes at least one of two things, either of which should be troubling--1) a lack of intellectual curiosity 2) a lack of serious thinking about the subject. All I'm saying is to approach the next couple of years as a way to see what's really out there. Trust me, at 22 and as a graduating senior in undergrad, there are a TON of career options that I never fully considered, and I definitely regret that. That said, I'm at the point where I've chosen my path, am interested in the law, and will go down that road to wherever it takes me. Give yourself an honest chance at letting your interests, goals, and ambitions wander a bit. It's scary to question something that you've held for so long, but that's just part of life, and you'll be glad you did it later instead of roboticly approaching career choice as "it's something I've wanted to do all my life." There's a reason that, for instance, adcoms don't like that attitude--it might reflect well on your commitment to the law, but it also reflects a lot about your intellectual maturity. Like I said, you might be a special case, but....you would need to ask yourself why you are so different from the rest of us. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

I understand the merits of your arguments, and I never said I haven't considered other careers, as I have. I'm not trying to come off as arrogant, but I don't really think either of your points are the case. In regard to #1, my intellectual curiosity is not lacking; I have a wide array of general interests both academically and other. I'm not just clinging to something because of comfort and unwilling to branch out...it's just that at the end of the day, no matter what factors I take into consideration, I envision myself as a lawyer and that seems to be where my passion is.

I've also given significant thought to careers unrelated to the legal field that I could also do well in. I wouldn't necessarily use "I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7" in a personal statement for an application, but it's a fact. Even when thinking about other careers, I've usually considered relating the career in question back to law. This isn't a matter of be a lawyer or else because that's all I can think of. It's more of an "I want to be a lawyer for x, x, x, and y." While the fact that this hasn't wavered can be interpreted the way you have, I would also argue that it can just as likely be used as a testament to an unrelenting desire to do what I want to do, not what's easy, popular, or in demand.

[jw316]

sex. have some.

+1

I understand my seriousness may be mistaken for a lack of social enjoyment, but I actually pledged (and became a brother) of one of the largest social fraternities on our campus (once again, at a Big Ten university). I've had my fair share of fun this year, but whereas many of my brothers are here with a "4 and done, study sometimes, party always" mentality, I'm attempting to use undergrad as an opportunity to better myself and increase my chances of admission to a prestigious law school (not necessarily because of the prestige, but because of the opportunities attached).

[jacktripper]

I think the primary danger in considering HYS so heavily at this point in your college career is that you're shutting out other potential career paths. Are you sure that you want to commit to 3 more years of schooling after undergrad? Are you sure you want to be a lawyer at all? Are you sure you don't want to do something like engineering/actuarial math/school teacher/etc? Let me tell you, I'm starting at YLS this fall, and I still ask myself all of those questions every few days. You're going to change a lot during undergrad--don't shut that out because of some dumb pipe dream to go to Harvard or Yale Law. The whole ambition thing leads nowhere if you let it control your predilections and lifestyle--if it's what you want, it'll develop organically.

I guess I could condense that into the suggestion that you not peg yourself as a future lawyer too quickly.

Unless something drastic happens, I'm positive. I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7 years old. Quite frankly, it's probably the only thing that's remained constant since then other than my legal name. Regardless of the major I graduate with (which I understand is definitely subject to change this early on), I know I want HYS for law school upon graduation.

I'm going into "unsolicited life advice" mode: I guess that what I'm getting at is that it's very rarely that people really know what they want to do at age 7, or hell--at age 21 for that matter. To say you've just wanted to be a lawyer since age 7 denotes at least one of two things, either of which should be troubling--1) a lack of intellectual curiosity 2) a lack of serious thinking about the subject. All I'm saying is to approach the next couple of years as a way to see what's really out there. Trust me, at 22 and as a graduating senior in undergrad, there are a TON of career options that I never fully considered, and I definitely regret that. That said, I'm at the point where I've chosen my path, am interested in the law, and will go down that road to wherever it takes me. Give yourself an honest chance at letting your interests, goals, and ambitions wander a bit. It's scary to question something that you've held for so long, but that's just part of life, and you'll be glad you did it later instead of roboticly approaching career choice as "it's something I've wanted to do all my life." There's a reason that, for instance, adcoms don't like that attitude--it might reflect well on your commitment to the law, but it also reflects a lot about your intellectual maturity. Like I said, you might be a special case, but....you would need to ask yourself why you are so different from the rest of us. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

I understand the merits of your arguments, and I never said I haven't considered other careers, as I have. I'm not trying to come off as arrogant, but I don't really think either of your points are the case. In regard to #1, my intellectual curiosity is not lacking; I have a wide array of general interests both academically and other. I'm not just clinging to something because of comfort and unwilling to branch out...it's just that at the end of the day, no matter what factors I take into consideration, I envision myself as a lawyer and that seems to be where my passion is.

I've also given significant thought to careers unrelated to the legal field that I could also do well in. I wouldn't necessarily use "I've wanted to be a lawyer since I was 7" in a personal statement for an application, but it's a fact. Even when thinking about other careers, I've usually considered relating the career in question back to law. This isn't a matter of be a lawyer or else because that's all I can think of. It's more of an "I want to be a lawyer for x, x, x, and y." While the fact that this hasn't wavered can be interpreted the way you have, I would also argue that it can just as likely be used as a testament to an unrelenting desire to do what I want to do, not what's easy, popular, or in demand.

good for you. Trust me you will encounter plenty of naysayers in the next few years. Don't listen to them.

[02082010]

You all gave him the same advice: Enjoy college, keep the GPA up, and don't worry about the LSAT for AT LEAST another year. He gets it.

Now stop bumping this thread.

[jco]

sex. have some.

+1

I understand my seriousness may be mistaken for a lack of social enjoyment, but I actually pledged (and became a brother) of one of the largest social fraternities on our campus (once again, at a Big Ten university). I've had my fair share of fun this year, but whereas many of my brothers are here with a "4 and done, study sometimes, party always" mentality, I'm attempting to use undergrad as an opportunity to better myself and increase my chances of admission to a prestigious law school (not necessarily because of the prestige, but because of the opportunities attached).

You sound like you're doing great. Sorry for the pseudo-lecture before. I just get tired of characteristic TLS cynicism sometimes. If you score in the 165-168 range on the LSAT, you should be in a great position for HYS.

[geoanthem]

As I said study hard, do well, and enjoy college. That being said I don't think you should get into a Harvard or bust mentality. If it happens, awesome but if not, you are in for some disappointment. A 164 is still the 91st percentile, so its not a sure thing. There are also a ton of other great law schools besides HYS that you should be happy attending if HYS doesn't work out. Sorry about being a little abrasive before, but I seriously wish you good luck!

[jacktripper]

You all gave him the same advice: Enjoy college, keep the GPA up, and don't worry about the LSAT for AT LEAST another year. He gets it.

Now stop bumping this thread.

ironic

[jw316]

Since I feel like this thread is about to die, I just wanted to reiterate my sincere thanks to everyone for offering up advice and insight. It really is appreciated, and I'm not going anywhere in regard to the forum...I just don't have much to say....yet.

Thank you again everyone.

[chłopak]

To the original poster:

Keep up the great work. As far as your GPA goes, it looks like you are on track to attend HYS. I realize that this is easier said than done, but for now, stay focused on your studies. Your time to obsess over the LSAT won't arrive for another year or so.

[kurama20]

I would recommend you use college to learn, to become a better thinker, and to be able to bring a unique intellectual perspective to your law school courses.

i'm not talking about jobs, i'm talking about learning. undergrad is pretty much the last time you will ever have the opportunity to take classes in... every subject not directly related to your career.

OP that's what the public library is for............

i'm not talking about jobs, i'm talking about learning. undergrad is pretty much the last time you will ever have the opportunity to take classes in... every subject not directly related to your career.

I agree with you to an extent, no one should set themselves up to be disappointed if they don't get into HYS. However, if he wants it he needs to aim for it. Also not trying to get into an affirmative action debate but you need to realize how much more attainable this is for the OP than it is for your average poster. Honestly, if he gets a 3.8 and even a 164 he WILL get into one of the three (probably Stanford). If he gets a 3.9 and a 165 he will basically be auto admit at H and S with very high chances of Y. To be honest pulling those stats when you have the right major, and taking something like testmasters to help with the LSAT, is not very difficult to do. Worse case scenario if OP gets those stats, big cash at Columbia on down.