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bfarag wrote:Question!

I've got quite the dilemma. After four years of college I will finally be graduating... But not with LSDAS GPA that I wanted...

I've kinda had a rough four years. I did pretty poorly my first two, although it wasn't for nothing (ADHD with no health insurance, father lost job then left country--to a penniless family--woo!, transferred schools, a bout with depression during a semester a professor recommended me withdraw from multiple times, and severe financial frustrations)

Apparently health insurance is a useful thing.

Anyways, as a result, my GPA was in the toilet for two years. Over the course of the next year however I was able to raise my GPA by .5 (you read that right) thanks to taking tons of classes during the year working terribly hard. By the end of this year, I'll have raised it (hopefully) by .7.

Problem is, the LSDAS GPA won't budge that much (woo--course forgiveness). Thanks to that, I'll probably have a GPA of about 3.3 for the LSDAS by the time I apply for law school.

I'm an AA male with an LSAT that'll probably end up being 170+ (I haven't formally studied much yet but a diagnostic taken under actual testing conditions puts me at 169--I'm gonna work my ass off, don't worry. I'm not cocky about this test or process by any means).

Anyways here's my real dilemma (srry, it's late and I can be long-winded). It seems that I could dramatically increase my chance of entering certain schools by boosting that GPA up just a tiny bit more. Would it be worth it to stay an extra semester to boost my LSDAS by .2+? I would take courses during the summer too... I'd like to get into the top schools, but with my GPA, it's gonna be a tough battle (it seems).

My adviser has discussed the possibility of retroactively withdrawing from one of my terrible semester. It'll be hard, but with medical documentation, it's possible.

Any thoughts? (Thanks guys)

Total Litigator wrote:Um... If you can actually pull off an 170+ you will be in the 99.99th+ percentile for AA's. Your only complaint with a 170+ and a lower GPA would be "What's a URM to do, now I'm not a lock for Harvard or Yale."

Nightrunner wrote:

Kohinoor wrote:

Total Litigator wrote:Um... If you can actually pull off an 170+ you will be in the 99.99th+ percentile for AA's. Your only complaint with a 170+ and a lower GPA would be "What's a URM to do, now I'm not a lock for Harvard or Yale."

Your math is wrong my good man.

He isn't too far off, although I'm not positive he understands what 99.99th percentile means.

vanwinkle wrote:You might have problems with HYS due to your GPA, but it's still worth the app fee there, and you're very likely to get in almost anywhere else you apply. URM isn't as helpful to splitters but you need to realize that only like 100 AA males a year get 170+ scores, so you'll stand out pretty strongly.

The retroactive withdrawal could be a good thing if the W's you get are reported as non-punitive (which I'd imagine they should be). You'd need to take time for that to happen though, and honestly with your LSAT and URM status you could probably write a GPA addendum explaining the circumstances and schools would admit you all over.

bfarag wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:You might have problems with HYS due to your GPA, but it's still worth the app fee there, and you're very likely to get in almost anywhere else you apply. URM isn't as helpful to splitters but you need to realize that only like 100 AA males a year get 170+ scores, so you'll stand out pretty strongly.

The retroactive withdrawal could be a good thing if the W's you get are reported as non-punitive (which I'd imagine they should be). You'd need to take time for that to happen though, and honestly with your LSAT and URM status you could probably write a GPA addendum explaining the circumstances and schools would admit you all over.

Yeah, it'd be a non-punitive measure. And the LSDAS doesn't pay attention to withdrawals (thankfully). I realize that there are few individuals who score in this region, so I know this gives me quite a bump.

But I'm wondering, if I want to aim for HYS, would it be more beneficial for me to stay that extra semester (or potentially two)? It has always been a dream to attend Harvard, and to know that--according to certain, forum accounts and LSTN accounts--it's not quite a far-fetched dream (off by .2 in the GPA it seems) is almost heart-wrenching. Would it look bad if I took time to complete my minor to raise my GPA?

Also, I don't plan on heading directly to law school. I'd like to do work in my mom's home country before I decide to do something like that, so it's not like I'll be sitting around if I decide to graduate in the winter.

I'd also like to thank you individuals for your input. It really means a lot to me to have people provide their opinions and knowledge.

trudat15 wrote:

bfarag wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:You might have problems with HYS due to your GPA, but it's still worth the app fee there, and you're very likely to get in almost anywhere else you apply. URM isn't as helpful to splitters but you need to realize that only like 100 AA males a year get 170+ scores, so you'll stand out pretty strongly.

The retroactive withdrawal could be a good thing if the W's you get are reported as non-punitive (which I'd imagine they should be). You'd need to take time for that to happen though, and honestly with your LSAT and URM status you could probably write a GPA addendum explaining the circumstances and schools would admit you all over.

Yeah, it'd be a non-punitive measure. And the LSDAS doesn't pay attention to withdrawals (thankfully). I realize that there are few individuals who score in this region, so I know this gives me quite a bump.

But I'm wondering, if I want to aim for HYS, would it be more beneficial for me to stay that extra semester (or potentially two)? It has always been a dream to attend Harvard, and to know that--according to certain, forum accounts and LSTN accounts--it's not quite a far-fetched dream (off by .2 in the GPA it seems) is almost heart-wrenching. Would it look bad if I took time to complete my minor to raise my GPA?

Also, I don't plan on heading directly to law school. I'd like to do work in my mom's home country before I decide to do something like that, so it's not like I'll be sitting around if I decide to graduate in the winter.

I'd also like to thank you individuals for your input. It really means a lot to me to have people provide their opinions and knowledge.

If I were you, I'd do exactly what you are proposing. Taking extra classes (if you can afford it) before your first bachelor's degree to boost the GPA up substantially. Hold off on taking your final major class until the following year, so you can fill that year with all "As". I know if I were in college, I would seriously consider this as well. Though I understand that there is a big URM bump for AA males, especially ones that can score 170+, if your dream is HLS, then do anything you can do get there. If your 3.3 goes up to 3.5 or 3.6 (depending on how many summer/school year "A" classes you can take) I imagine you will stand a far better chance at your dream, which is worth the extra year IMO.

I wouldnt really know what the URM bump is, but if HYS are indeed just out of reach, then do what you can do get it within reach.

BlueDiamond wrote:URM with 3.3 GPA and LSAT over 170 could go almost anywhere already

bfarag wrote:
Thanks!

I highly doubt the URM push is that significant, but I figured that I should push myself so that I don't need to rely too much on it.

UPDATE: I can withdraw from my crappiest semester (LSAC GPA sky rockets to a 3.6 because of it). I can probably get a LSAC 3.7+ by the end of the next year and a half. Ah!!!

Wish me luck guys! Thanks again!

thatjuanguy wrote:

bfarag wrote:
Thanks!

I highly doubt the URM push is that significant, but I figured that I should push myself so that I don't need to rely too much on it.

UPDATE: I can withdraw from my crappiest semester (LSAC GPA sky rockets to a 3.6 because of it). I can probably get a LSAC 3.7+ by the end of the next year and a half. Ah!!!

Wish me luck guys! Thanks again!

ummm, you're wrong? the urm bump especially for AA's can be quite significant...

Stanford4Me wrote:

thatjuanguy wrote:

bfarag wrote:
Thanks!

I highly doubt the URM push is that significant, but I figured that I should push myself so that I don't need to rely too much on it.

UPDATE: I can withdraw from my crappiest semester (LSAC GPA sky rockets to a 3.6 because of it). I can probably get a LSAC 3.7+ by the end of the next year and a half. Ah!!!

Wish me luck guys! Thanks again!

ummm, you're wrong? the urm bump especially for AA's can be quite significant...

I will +1 this and add "especially for AA males"

bfarag wrote:

trudat15 wrote:

bfarag wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:You might have problems with HYS due to your GPA, but it's still worth the app fee there, and you're very likely to get in almost anywhere else you apply. URM isn't as helpful to splitters but you need to realize that only like 100 AA males a year get 170+ scores, so you'll stand out pretty strongly.

The retroactive withdrawal could be a good thing if the W's you get are reported as non-punitive (which I'd imagine they should be). You'd need to take time for that to happen though, and honestly with your LSAT and URM status you could probably write a GPA addendum explaining the circumstances and schools would admit you all over.

Yeah, it'd be a non-punitive measure. And the LSDAS doesn't pay attention to withdrawals (thankfully). I realize that there are few individuals who score in this region, so I know this gives me quite a bump.

But I'm wondering, if I want to aim for HYS, would it be more beneficial for me to stay that extra semester (or potentially two)? It has always been a dream to attend Harvard, and to know that--according to certain, forum accounts and LSTN accounts--it's not quite a far-fetched dream (off by .2 in the GPA it seems) is almost heart-wrenching. Would it look bad if I took time to complete my minor to raise my GPA?

Also, I don't plan on heading directly to law school. I'd like to do work in my mom's home country before I decide to do something like that, so it's not like I'll be sitting around if I decide to graduate in the winter.

I'd also like to thank you individuals for your input. It really means a lot to me to have people provide their opinions and knowledge.

If I were you, I'd do exactly what you are proposing. Taking extra classes (if you can afford it) before your first bachelor's degree to boost the GPA up substantially. Hold off on taking your final major class until the following year, so you can fill that year with all "As". I know if I were in college, I would seriously consider this as well. Though I understand that there is a big URM bump for AA males, especially ones that can score 170+, if your dream is HLS, then do anything you can do get there. If your 3.3 goes up to 3.5 or 3.6 (depending on how many summer/school year "A" classes you can take) I imagine you will stand a far better chance at your dream, which is worth the extra year IMO.

I wouldnt really know what the URM bump is, but if HYS are indeed just out of reach, then do what you can do get it within reach.

Thanks!

I highly doubt the URM push is that significant, but I figured that I should push myself so that I don't need to rely too much on it.

UPDATE: I can withdraw from my crappiest semester (LSAC GPA sky rockets to a 3.6 because of it). I can probably get a LSAC 3.7+ by the end of the next year and a half. Ah!!!

Wish me luck guys! Thanks again!

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mightyaphrodite/jd

AA female. Break a 170 and I'd say you have a good shot at H.

mbw wrote:

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mightyaphrodite/jd

AA female. Break a 170 and I'd say you have a good shot at H.

I know this person, and she had some pretty strong softs as well. Not trying to dissuade, but tempering...

ETA: After last year and the nightmare scenario where 170+ culturally affiliated NDNs couldn't break the barrier, I'm much less convinced that, in the current climate, the LSAT alone gets you the gold. Maybe for AA guys, but not for the other 90% of URMs...

Total Litigator wrote:"In 2004, 10,370 blacks took the LSAT examination. Only 29 blacks, or 0.3 percent of all LSAT test takers, scored 170 or above"

Boo yah. (http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_gradu ... _test.html)

Although I am wrong, as long as the numbers haven't gone up a lot since 2004, a 170 puts an AA at the 99.7th percentile. So yes, I was off but only .02%. The numbers hopefully have gone up since then, but a 170 is still probably a pretty safe 99th percentile.