148 in Dec. and aiming for 170 in Oct.--Score dive? Forum

[Helmholtz]

LOL some people like to use this board as a personal journal.

"Captain's Log. Day 6321.1 After a 5 day battle, the Kilngon fleet has been successfully defeated. The course is set for the repair station. And I got 164 on the last PT!"

I laughed.

[Lonagan]

There is comedy in this thread.

[awesomepossum]

I think you're overestimating the impact of spelling ability when it comes to lawyering.

Actually I think people underestimate it. Lately, in classes and at work, folks have really been emphasizing how important PERFECT work product is. Apparently lots of people just don't look at the spell check carefully enough. People get no-offered over this stuff.

[jr1886]

How come we never get practice test score updates? It's hard to tell if these 25 hour per week study sessions are doing anything for you man. Give your followers something tangible to see.

Just hold on a little. I've been getting my accuracy down first before i start taking full length test. My plan when I started studying was to study LG for a month, LR for a month, and RC for two weeks. I started my studying on March 22nd and i have no plan to change my schedule now. I will start taking full length test May 31rst as scheduled. So if you are interested, check back then for updates.

I will continue to post weekly about my progress

This past week, I studied for 25 hours doing 5 untimed section of LR in the 10 more official LSAT book. I averaged 5 missed questions. This week, I will do five more LR timed first than untimed right after and then reviewed them extensively. Then, it's on to the RCB. I finished game change book, it is very enlightening and it was interesting to see how much i already forgot about the recent presidential election.

Did you develop these study habits after your 148 or before? If you were studying 25 hours a week and taking several PT's before your first test, I really think you should aim a little lower or you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. I'd shoot for 160 if I were you. Then again, if you went in cold the first time and decided to actually prepare this time a jump to 170 could be possible. Good luck.

As i stated above, I only took a few PTs (about 5 or 6) before my first test so i think my preparation was inadequate. There's nothing wrong shooting for a 170. I just need to back it up come test day.

[jr1886]

I will continue to post weekly about my progress

This past week i finished studying LR(22hrs). Only two weeks left before i start taking full length PTs. For the next two weeks i plan to finished the RCB and redo all the games( about 30) i've had done so far.

Can't wait for the World Cup to start which will cause me to drastically change my schedule. Right now, I wake up at 6:30 AM to go to the library and study for the LSAT but with the World Cup starting on June 11, I will have to wake up at 5 AM to study and then be ready to watch the World Cup

On USA, I had big hope for this team with the speed of Charlie Davis running all over defenders and always on the attack. But with him officially out of the World Cup, I dont see USA getting pass the first round. England and Algeria will move on. Sorry USA fans!

[mazzini]

It can be done... I went from a 153 last june (actual administered test) to a 168 in December. I know it's no 170 but I was happy with it. I used the bibles and pretty much every practice test available. Best of luck!

[MegaMan45]

I don't really post much on this website and typically only use it if I'm looking up advice on something (getting a job, etc...). I saw this thread and thought I would step in though because I think that a lot of people are trying to be helpful/encouraging but are instead offering bad advice. Is going from a 148 to 170+ 100% impossible? Well... no. Few things in this world are 100% impossible. I might find a briefcase with a million dollars in it while walking to dinner later tonight. Is going from a 148 to 170+ going to happen? Probably not...

Before starting law school, I went to an Ivy League undergrad (I'm not saying this to brag. I'm only saying this to point out the fact that I can honestly say that about half of the people that I knew in college took the LSAT). I then worked as a paralegal for two years before starting law school at a large law firm where virtually every paralegal that I knew took the LSAT. I now go to law school, where, perhaps not surprisingly, everyone that I know took the LSAT. I think it would be safe to say that I've heard well over 100 people's LSAT stories. The largest score increase of anyone that I know in REAL LIFE (i.e. not on a fairly anonymous website) was 15 points (148 to 163). I know a few people (5 or 6) who went up 10-12 points. Most people, however, take an LSAT prep course, study like hell for a few months, and then go up 5 or 6 points. Also, for every person that I know who went up 10 or more points, I know of someone who did worse on the real thing than on his/her first practice test. Lastly, once you hit 160, it gets MUCH tougher to increase your score. Pretty much everyone that I know who had a truly significant score increase was going from a score in the 140s/150s to a score in the 150s/160s.

I say none of this to rain on your parade. But frankly, if you aren't realistic about what you can/can't do, then you're just going to be bummed out later on. No one needs to score 170+. So what if you don't get into Harvard. There are plenty of good jobs out there that don't require you to have been at the top of the class at a t14 school. If you set your sights on a 160, it sounds like you have a great work ethic, so you probably have a good shot at pulling it off. Provided you have a B+ average or better, a 160 will probably get you into a decent T1 or T2 school. Also, realize that once you get into law school, law school is pretty much a clean slate, so just work like hell and get grades.

P.S. the guy claiming to have gone from a 141 to a 178 or 179 or whatever is pulling your leg. Provided the first PT wasn't a complete fluke, NO ONE makes that kind of jump.

[LAWLAW09]

Go after your 170 and ignore what anybody else has to say. No different than other goals that you have pursued and will pursue in life, you are doing yourself a disservice to not be mindful of any opportunities that may be passed up while you're in pursuit. The same can be said if you're pursing any goal as if it is a life and death situation. Few things should be taken that seriously and you should neither base your intellectual validation around a system that wasn't designed for us (URMs), nor should you handcuff your ability to enjoy life to that very same system.


My advice isn't based off a limited number of encounters regarding other test takers but rather my own increase in score. My diagnostic was in the 140s, scored in the 160s, and am now prepping consistently at 170 before June's retake. Anything can happen when I retake this June but it is a fact that if I sit down and take any lr or lg section that the chances of me scoring more than 3 wrong in a section is less likely than it is likely. Diagnostics, as well as testing scores, can be attributed to a bunch of factors that have nothing to do with what is "intellectually possible" or typical.

Learn the test until you know what type of question is being asked instantly. If your schedule permits, review every right and wrong answers for every lr timed section and write thorough explanations for each answer choice. This will benefit you far more than taking a bunch of exams (not that you should eliminate taking a bunch as an option. Explain why the answer choice is wrong for that question, specifically, and see if there is a way that you could reword it so that it becomes a possible answer for that question type and stimulus. It takes me about 4 hours to write explanations for one lr section. The other sections require slightly different methods but the lr section is a section that you should be able to teach no worse than an lsat prep instructor.


Your focus right now should be on nothing except for becoming smarter as it relates to logic, the structure of the exam, and the ability to increase your reading speed and comprehension. The latter will come with reading and trying to actively engage the material so that you understand every paragraph through a system of diagrams. You won't remember every detail and may even get a bunch of questions wrong but you should understand what you're reading as you marking up the passages.

Lastly, see what you can do about other factors that could affect performance: stress, fatigue, wrong study environment, diet, etc. and work to mitigate those factors as much as possible. Whatever schedule you follow you should not be building stress and panic into your routine. If it's something you can control, try to control it. If it isn't -- this goes for general things such as diet to more specific moments such as missing a day of studying -- tell yourself it doesn't matter because "I know the material any way or I will eventually know it."

You may score a 149 three times in a row. I don't know. Since this probably will be my last post related to this, you shouldn't even assume I care. What I do know is that it is not helpful for anyone to point out that going from a 148-170 is "probably not going to happen" because scoring a 170, regardless of one's baseline, is unlikely for the overwhelming majority of test takers. "It's probably not going to happen" can be said for those scoring 165 right now. Do what they will do and go after it.

Do what you can to increasingly answer more questions correct and faster and do not worry about scores. Focus on understanding everything that your eyes read, both lsat related and non, and see what happens.

Good luck.

[jr1886]

I don't really post much on this website and typically only use it if I'm looking up advice on something (getting a job, etc...). I saw this thread and thought I would step in though because I think that a lot of people are trying to be helpful/encouraging but are instead offering bad advice. Is going from a 148 to 170+ 100% impossible? Well... no. Few things in this world are 100% impossible. I might find a briefcase with a million dollars in it while walking to dinner later tonight. Is going from a 148 to 170+ going to happen? Probably not...

Before starting law school, I went to an Ivy League undergrad (I'm not saying this to brag. I'm only saying this to point out the fact that I can honestly say that about half of the people that I knew in college took the LSAT). I then worked as a paralegal for two years before starting law school at a large law firm where virtually every paralegal that I knew took the LSAT. I now go to law school, where, perhaps not surprisingly, everyone that I know took the LSAT. I think it would be safe to say that I've heard well over 100 people's LSAT stories. The largest score increase of anyone that I know in REAL LIFE (i.e. not on a fairly anonymous website) was 15 points (148 to 163). I know a few people (5 or 6) who went up 10-12 points. Most people, however, take an LSAT prep course, study like hell for a few months, and then go up 5 or 6 points. Also, for every person that I know who went up 10 or more points, I know of someone who did worse on the real thing than on his/her first practice test. Lastly, once you hit 160, it gets MUCH tougher to increase your score. Pretty much everyone that I know who had a truly significant score increase was going from a score in the 140s/150s to a score in the 150s/160s.

I say none of this to rain on your parade. But frankly, if you aren't realistic about what you can/can't do, then you're just going to be bummed out later on. No one needs to score 170+. So what if you don't get into Harvard. There are plenty of good jobs out there that don't require you to have been at the top of the class at a t14 school. If you set your sights on a 160, it sounds like you have a great work ethic, so you probably have a good shot at pulling it off. Provided you have a B+ average or better, a 160 will probably get you into a decent T1 or T2 school. Also, realize that once you get into law school, law school is pretty much a clean slate, so just work like hell and get grades.

P.S. the guy claiming to have gone from a 141 to a 178 or 179 or whatever is pulling your leg. Provided the first PT wasn't a complete fluke, NO ONE makes that kind of jump.

I appreciate your advice but i categorically reject it.

Go after your 170 and ignore what anybody else has to say. No different than other goals that you have pursued and will pursue in life, you are doing yourself a disservice to not be mindful of any opportunities that may be passed up while you're in pursuit. The same can be said if you're pursing any goal as if it is a life and death situation. Few things should be taken that seriously and you should neither base your intellectual validation around a system that wasn't designed for us (URMs), nor should you handcuff your ability to enjoy life to that very same system.


My advice isn't based off a limited number of encounters regarding other test takers but rather my own increase in score. My diagnostic was in the 140s, scored in the 160s, and am now prepping consistently at 170 before June's retake. Anything can happen when I retake this June but it is a fact that if I sit down and take any lr or lg section that the chances of me scoring more than 3 wrong in a section is less likely than it is likely. Diagnostics, as well as testing scores, can be attributed to a bunch of factors that have nothing to do with what is "intellectually possible" or typical.

Learn the test until you know what type of question is being asked instantly. If your schedule permits, review every right and wrong answers for every lr timed section and write thorough explanations for each answer choice. This will benefit you far more than taking a bunch of exams (not that you should eliminate taking a bunch as an option. Explain why the answer choice is wrong for that question, specifically, and see if there is a way that you could reword it so that it becomes a possible answer for that question type and stimulus. It takes me about 4 hours to write explanations for one lr section. The other sections require slightly different methods but the lr section is a section that you should be able to teach no worse than an lsat prep instructor.


Your focus right now should be on nothing except for becoming smarter as it relates to logic, the structure of the exam, and the ability to increase your reading speed and comprehension. The latter will come with reading and trying to actively engage the material so that you understand every paragraph through a system of diagrams. You won't remember every detail and may even get a bunch of questions wrong but you should understand what you're reading as you marking up the passages.

Lastly, see what you can do about other factors that could affect performance: stress, fatigue, wrong study environment, diet, etc. and work to mitigate those factors as much as possible. Whatever schedule you follow you should not be building stress and panic into your routine. If it's something you can control, try to control it. If it isn't -- this goes for general things such as diet to more specific moments such as missing a day of studying -- tell yourself it doesn't matter because "I know the material any way or I will eventually know it."

You may score a 149 three times in a row. I don't know. Since this probably will be my last post related to this, you shouldn't even assume I care. What I do know is that it is not helpful for anyone to point out that going from a 148-170 is "probably not going to happen" because scoring a 170, regardless of one's baseline, is unlikely for the overwhelming majority of test takers. "It's probably not going to happen" can be said for those scoring 165 right now. Do what they will do and go after it.

Do what you can to increasingly answer more questions correct and faster and do not worry about scores. Focus on understanding everything that your eyes read, both lsat related and non, and see what happens.

Good luck.

Thank you. Great advice and I've been doing a lot of the things you suggested when i started preparing two months ago such as writing explanations for LR sections and sometimes even learning wrong answers for certain questions types such as flaw reasoning and Method of reasoning. Yeah, writing explanations can be draining, it took me more than two hours for every LR section when I wrote explanations for why each answer is wrong and why the credited answer is correct.

Good luck with your coming June LSAT!! and thank you for your advice once again.

[Teoeo]

tag

[A'nold]

i admire your willpower not to take a practice test, but I just hope you are not setting yourself up for like the biggest dissapointment of your life or something. What if you get a 153 on your first test? I mean, will you give up and just die inside? If not, then good for you and I can see this working.....just don't expect to automatically hit a 160+ score on your first try, even if your section by section practice indicates that you will get a 165+ or something like that. Good luck!

[jr1886]

i admire your willpower not to take a practice test, but I just hope you are not setting yourself up for like the biggest dissapointment of your life or something. What if you get a 153 on your first test? I mean, will you give up and just die inside? If not, then good for you and I can see this working.....just don't expect to automatically hit a 160+ score on your first try, even if your section by section practice indicates that you will get a 165+ or something like that. Good luck!

I will be disappointed if i don't hit 160s on my first practice test scheduled for May 31st. However, I won't feel like it's the biggest disappointment of my life. In case you misread my intro comments to the tread, I'm scheduled to take the LSAT in October NOT this June so i will have plenty of time to get myself back up and keep on studying if I failed to hit 160. From May 31rst to October, thats four months and IMO plenty of time to recover from any injury of bruised ego.

[Ginger1492]

I have to admit I didn't read all of the posts but OP, I like your optimism. AIM HIGH! I went from a 152 to a 165 in just three weeks. I am now studying for a retake in October also aiming for the 170 or so range. Best of Luck!

[clintonius]

I'm very curious as to how this turns out. OP, best of luck to you!

[A'nold]

i admire your willpower not to take a practice test, but I just hope you are not setting yourself up for like the biggest dissapointment of your life or something. What if you get a 153 on your first test? I mean, will you give up and just die inside? If not, then good for you and I can see this working.....just don't expect to automatically hit a 160+ score on your first try, even if your section by section practice indicates that you will get a 165+ or something like that. Good luck!

I will be disappointed if i don't hit 160s on my first practice test scheduled for May 31st. However, I won't feel like it's the biggest disappointment of my life. In case you misread my intro comments to the tread, I'm scheduled to take the LSAT in October NOT this June so i will have plenty of time to get myself back up and keep on studying if I failed to hit 160. From May 31rst to October, thats four months and IMO plenty of time to recover from any injury of bruised ego.

I really wasn't trying to burst your bubble or anything, just pointing out that like 2-3 months of prep w/out a practice exam might be a little extreme. I would think it would be very important to track your progress as you study. I'm not talking like everyday or other day, I'm talking like every few weeks or so or something. That's just me though. Good luck!

[jr1886]

I will continue to post weekly about my progress

This past week, I studied for just 20 hrs. I finished the RCB and just one more week to go before i start taking Full Length test. This week, I will repeat and review all the previous games i have done so far.

I really wasn't trying to burst your bubble or anything, just pointing out that like 2-3 months of prep w/out a practice exam might be a little extreme. I would think it would be very important to track your progress as you study. I'm not talking like everyday or other day, I'm talking like every few weeks or so or something. That's just me though. Good luck!

Thanks...just one week away from taking a full length test. Thanks

I'm very curious as to how this turns out. OP, best of luck to you!

Thanks.

I have to admit I didn't read all of the posts but OP, I like your optimism. AIM HIGH! I went from a 152 to a 165 in just three weeks. I am now studying for a retake in October also aiming for the 170 or so range. Best of Luck!

Thanks and good luck to you too

[20121109]

Keep working and never give up!

<------ 151 Diagnostic, ended up with a 172.

Good Luck <3

[jr1886]

Keep working and never give up!

<------ 151 Diagnostic, ended up with a 172.

Good Luck <3

Thank you Gaia..., Your story and many others have inspired me everyday to keep working hard.

[jr1886]

Today I took My first PT after two months of studying. It was PT 9 and I think it was a fairly difficult one as exemplify by the generous curve. Here's the breakdown

09 ----05/31/2010 ---------- -5LR -11RC -2LR -12LG ------ 71/161 ----------------------------- -2RC of SPA.2

The SPA.2 stands for SuperPrep A section 2. I thought the first LR was tricky. I finished with 5 minutes to spare then I haphazardly check a few questions that were difficult then I thought I would do pretty well. I missed 5. I run out of time doing the RC and the LG guessing in the last passage entirely and the last game entirely respectively. My next PT is scheduled for Thursday.

[jr1886]

Took my 2nd PT today.It was PT10 and here's the rundown

10 ----06/03/2010 ---------- -4LR -6RC - -6LR -11LG ------ 74/160 ----------------------------- -13LG of SPA.3

The point is I'm still bad a LG. I can't seem to finish any of the game sections. Usually by the third game I'm running out time. The curve was less forgiving today and even with a better raw score, I score slightly less.
I plan to take PT 11 Monday. Time to practice some more games.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Took my 2nd PT today.It was PT10 and here's the rundown

10 ----06/03/2010 ---------- -4LR -6RC - -6LR -11LG ------ 74/160 ----------------------------- -13LG of SPA.3

The point is I'm still bad a LG. I can't seem to finish any of the game sections. Usually by the third game I'm running out time. The curve was less forgiving today and even with a better raw score, I score slightly less.
I plan to take PT 11 Monday. Time to practice some more games.

Try speeding up on the easier games to see how fast you can push it and still maintain accuracy. If you lose accuracy, then slow down a little.

[jr1886]

Took my 2nd PT today.It was PT10 and here's the rundown

10 ----06/03/2010 ---------- -4LR -6RC - -6LR -11LG ------ 74/160 ----------------------------- -13LG of SPA.3

The point is I'm still bad a LG. I can't seem to finish any of the game sections. Usually by the third game I'm running out time. The curve was less forgiving today and even with a better raw score, I score slightly less.
I plan to take PT 11 Monday. Time to practice some more games.

Try speeding up on the easier games to see how fast you can push it and still maintain accuracy. If you lose accuracy, then slow down a little.

Thanks. I tried that the other day, got through with 3/4. I had my best score for LG -5.

[jr1886]

Took My 3rd PT two days ago. Had my best score so far albeit without an experimental section. Still didn't get to the last game but im happy for now with a -5 LG. here's the breakdown:
11 ----06/06/2010 ---------- -4LR -3RC - -2LR -5LG ------ 87/167 ----------------------------- None

[Byakuya769]

OP, you seem to be doing great. I would suggest, however, that you definitely start doing timed practice test at least once a week about a month or two out from the test date. Also.. be weary of burning yourself out. Also the closer you get to the test, the more recent your pts need to be. I may be wrong.. but the earlier tests may be easier to score higher on...

[wrichcirw]

Good luck with this man... but be realistic. 160 should be wear you are aiming.

A 170 doesn't take just studying... it takes a good amount of natural ability. Most people can't study themselves to a 170... at least not from a 148 starting point. It's possible... just be realistic and don't be afraid to shoot for the 160 range. I would have a different approach if you were in the 155-158... and even than I would be skeptical.


So study hard, dedicate your life to it, SHOOT for a 170...

but don't be bummed with a 160. Its a HUGE improvement on a 148, no matter what the circumstance.

You know, I think his 170 is doable. Look at the breakdown...on average, his LG was his weakest area, and that by far is the easiest area to get points for those unfamiliar with the test.

I'm saying this because on my diag I got a 150, and improved to 163 without much studying...mainly just scoring higher on the LG and a couple questions here and there. I'm also aiming for a 170, and I think with some hard-core prep and the bibles, it's not far from my reach.