Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money? Forum

[JennBNYC]

The snow becomes gutter slush very fast in Midtown or other high-traffic areas, but in more residential areas, say Bk Heights, it can stay on the sidewalks and ruin shoes and set old ladies slipping about much longer. Just saying.

You're right, but that's pretty typical of any urban area, or even suburban areas. I grew up in suburban/rural PA had to deal with slippy sidewalks, parking lots, driveways. The snow gets gross anywhere, and I'm most happy about not having to drive in it! That always scared me.

Regardless, OP I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. I was merely intended to give more perspective on NYC. Best of luck with your decision!

[laidoffjournalist]

My, hasn't this thread gone nuts. The more I think about it, the harder it is to justify the cost of living if I'm not going to a high-ranked school or getting some sort of scholarship. I think D.C. is likely my top location choice, but I'm open to other northeastern cities. I've even thought about UW-Madison or schools on Michigan and Pennsylvania. But the bottom line is job prospects -- I'll suck it up and pay whatever I have to in order to have a solid job after I'm done. Again, D.C. NY-NJ areas are where my sights are set. Perhaps after I get my LSAT scores, I should visit all these places...

What're your actual numbers? Although second fiddle to Fordham, BU/BC hold their own in NYC. The COL is much lower in Boston, and the Boston schools tend to give more money. Also, BU's top three markets in order are Boston, NYC, DC with about 50% in Boston and surrounding states, 20% in NYC, 10% in DC, and 10% in LA (and 10% scattered around in Chicago, etc.). If you're looking for NYC/DC as potential cities, but wouldn't mind Boston, give BU a look.

My GPA is 3.19 and the LSAT remains to be seen -- my goal is 165+ but I'm not there at this point. I am confident I can be.

[OperaSoprano]

A couple of quick things about NYC: Yes, the snow melts more quickly in high traffic areas. I also can't complain about my commute, which consists of a ten minute walk past Juilliard and the Met down to my school. It only takes that long because I still behave like a tourist and stare at the Met every time I pass it, which is kind of a fail for someone born in NYC who goes to almost every new production. Living here is worth every last cent of the debt that I'll be in. Yes, I am borrowing everything.

That said, Laidoffjournalist's comment about going to a good school makes sense. There are areas of the country where T2 and even T3/T4 schools do well in local markets (USD, Idaho, and Ole Miss come to mind). NYC is not one of those areas. I would argue that Rutgers-Newark is a fine choice (cheap tuition, next best option after Fordham for placement), as is Cardozo (generous scholarships, if you can get one guaranteed, and you want to work in the public sector- not a great biglaw option, but then we're all screwed in that regard ITE.) NYC is a saturated legal market, which attests to the fact that people want to be here. This makes it crucial that you attend the best school you can get into, or a lower ranked school only with a guaranteed large scholarship.

Living in this city is not for everyone, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Fordham students are surveyed when we begin school, and 96% of us admit that NYC is the place where we want to practice. Yeah, self selection, but most of us stay true to our word and stay. Our dean is annoyed, and wants us to scamper so Fordham can get some more national placement, but none of my friends have any desire to leave.

[lsbm3]

Hey asshole. I live in Hoboken, 6 minutes outside Manhattan and 14 minutes from Midtown (closer than most people in the Boroughs). Also, I've worked full-time in Midtown for over two years, so I believe I have some experience with the area. And my costs aren't the same as someone living in Manhattan? Yes, because I'm not stupid. I don't pay an exorbitant amount to live in a tiny place. I picked a more logical option. No one forces you to live farther beyond your means than you want to. Does that mean I don't have experience with the City? No. And btw that $89 metro card is unlimited. Think you'd pay MUCH less to own a car, insure it and pay to maintain it? You spend 2 hours a day on the subway? Well, then you either live REALLY far away from your school, or you do a lot of lot of other discretionary travel. That's not relevant. If you really hate so much subway time and such high expenses then I would recommend moving to a less expensive option. However, you seem set on leaving, and I'm certainly not going to try to convince you to stay.

To OP:

Sorry for the ouot of line behavior of mine and JennB's. I was merely trying to give you one view of the city in what i thought was a humoristic tone . Had no idea some people would take my post so personally. I think living in a city is great, but i would shoot for something a little less extreme than NYC.

To JennB:

Girl, you sure sound hot all mad
I live in Brooklyn, 10 minutes from 14th street Union square manhattan. So I can fairly say "IT'S NOT NO SUBURBS" I buy an unlimited because a daily metrocard would cost 4.50/day 4.50; for 30 days would be 135$. I don't do a lot of discretionary travel by train but it doesn't pay to NOT get an unlimited. I doubt anyone who lives here only travels to school anyway.. SO having said that my school is by Columbus Circle in the uptown area (next to Fordham). It takes 45mins to get to if im lucky. But train DELAYYYYS are an every day thing here so it can stretch into 1hr+ trip easily. I do have a car: insurance under my name is 290$/month(for my age group this is pretty cheap), gas$$, parking-you are lucky if you find it. Park in a lot by my school, its only 14$ all day for students. park in the street (in my case this is out of question unless i want to find my baby missing a side mirror or have a new dent every day) once again, if you can find parking and want to keep going to the meter every 1-2 hours. Also street cleaning. I'm sorry but most people don't live 10 minutes from their school. Most of my friends live in the Bronx, Queens or Brooklyn and their school is in a different borough. Ask any New Yorker what they think of DOT. Or read the newspaper. anyway you can message me if you want make sure to include a picture

[JennBNYC]

To OP:

Sorry for the ouot of line behavior of mine and JennB's. I was merely trying to give you one view of the city in what i thought was a humoristic tone . Had no idea some people would take my post so personally. I think living in a city is great, but i would shoot for something a little less extreme than NYC.

To JennB:

Girl, you sure sound hot all mad
I live in Brooklyn, 10 minutes from 14th street Union square manhattan. So I can fairly say "IT'S NOT NO SUBURBS" I buy an unlimited because a daily metrocard would cost 4.50/day 4.50; for 30 days would be 135$. I don't do a lot of discretionary travel by train but it doesn't pay to NOT get an unlimited. I doubt anyone who lives here only travels to school anyway.. SO having said that my school is by Columbus Circle in the uptown area (next to Fordham). It takes 45mins to get to if im lucky. But train DELAYYYYS are an every day thing here so it can stretch into 1hr+ trip easily. I do have a car: insurance under my name is 290$/month(for my age group this is pretty cheap), gas$$, parking-you are lucky if you find it. Park in a lot by my school, its only 14$ all day for students. park in the street (in my case this is out of question unless i want to find my baby missing a side mirror or have a new dent every day) once again, if you can find parking and want to keep going to the meter every 1-2 hours. Also street cleaning. I'm sorry but most people don't live 10 minutes from their school. Most of my friends live in the Bronx, Queens or Brooklyn and their school is in a different borough. Ask any New Yorker what they think of DOT. Or read the newspaper. anyway you can message me if you want make sure to include a picture

Ugh. I hate when people talk shit about those who live in NJ, and how they know nothing about what it's like to be a NY-er when they live outside Manhattan as well. Yes, I know "NYC" encompasses all the Boroughs, but Hoboken at least is just as much like a part of NYC as Brooklyn. Personally, I like the style/conditions of Hoboken more than any of the Boroughs, which is why I live there, but that's simply my personal opinion. I feel like if you don't like in Manhattan, but live nearby, we're pretty much all on the same footing. And I agree; an unlimited pass is certainly the way to go. Do you NEED a car though? I used to have one, then I got rid of it. I can get anywhere I need to by public transportation, and it save a LOT of money. The cost of a MetroCard or PATH pass doesn't bother me because that's the only amount I pay toward transportation. You'd probably eliminate a lot of headaches if you didn't have a car, but then again, I don't know your situation.

...and I think I'll pass on the PM, even though you're a lot more tolerable in the afternoon. Not a morning person?

And now I'm done being a pain in the ass on this thread .

[D. H2Oman]

Hey, can we get some more analysis on the New York City snow melt?

[reasonable_man]

OP:

Attending Carschmozo, BLS or the Hof will be as close as you may ever come to actually setting $200,000.00 on fire.

[tycho_brahe]

I'd say it depends. If you can get a half-scholarship or more at those schools (and I include Fordham), I'd say go for it. Since you were a journalist, you probably know what it's like to live like a scuzzy bohemian. It's not going to get any worse with a law degree. If your financial goals are modest, if you don't pay sticker price for the schools, and if you're not going to have kids for at least five years or so out of law school, I don't see why not.

That said, if you've never lived in a big city before, you might want to try somewhere other than NYC first. NYC is extremely rewarding but also incredibly competitive. It really is harder here than anywhere else, but if you feel you're up for the challenge, go for it.

Also, moving to Thailand sounds way better than law school.

[Puffy]

My, hasn't this thread gone nuts. The more I think about it, the harder it is to justify the cost of living if I'm not going to a high-ranked school or getting some sort of scholarship. I think D.C. is likely my top location choice, but I'm open to other northeastern cities. I'

One thing D.C. isn't is cheap. Unless that one thing is that D.C. is not a northeastern city.

[Blindmelon]

My, hasn't this thread gone nuts. The more I think about it, the harder it is to justify the cost of living if I'm not going to a high-ranked school or getting some sort of scholarship. I think D.C. is likely my top location choice, but I'm open to other northeastern cities. I'

One thing D.C. isn't is cheap. Unless that one thing is that D.C. is not a northeastern city.

I second that. DC COL sucks... a lot.

[paratactical]

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[Blindmelon]

JennBNYC-

Sweet heart, I think the other guy is a douchebag but Hoboken is not just as much a part of the city as Brooklyn or Queens. Maybe as much as Staten Island.

erm... yea except the whole Staten Island is a borough of NYC and Hoboken is in NJ .

[paratactical]

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[laidoffjournalist]

I've been to Hoboken. Although the train ride is a little long into the city and it's not like living in the city, it's very close and most of the people there are commuting to NYC anyway. It's pretty nice place to live -- I read that it has one of the highest concentrations of wealthy, young single people. I'm rethinking NYC anyway...

I think if I want to go into media/communication law, D.C. would be a good place. And to the smart-ass above, D.C. is considered northeast by some definitions. More importantly, it's northeast to me because I wouldn't live any lower. I also never said it was cheap.

I'm open to other cities though, like Chicago. I worry that Boston's cost of living is insane, but I've even considered Madison, Notre Dame, and places in Pennsylvania. I think I really need to just visit these places. I'll apply and see what my options are after acceptance letters since I'll have a fee waiver.

[paratactical]

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[spondee]

While it's hard to cut down the cost of rent in NYC - unless you want to live in a tiny room with no windows, no closet, and five dirty drunk roommates in Bushwick - the COL of living beyond that is really what you make it. For every restaurant that offers a thousand-dollar omelet, there are twenty that offer a $3 lunch. It's easy to get distracted and tempted to outspend your means, probably especially if you're new, but with the competition, density, and variety of the city, I think living on a student budget isn't that difficult a task. If the opportunities, the people, and the feel of the city are worth it to you, then, no, NYC is not a huge waste of money. Plus all those things you can't have but see every day are great motivators!

[tycho_brahe]

unless you want to live in a tiny room with no windows, no closet, and five dirty drunk roommates in Bushwick

it has been done, and it's not so bad...

[Blindmelon]

JennBNYC-

Sweet heart, I think the other guy is a douchebag but Hoboken is not just as much a part of the city as Brooklyn or Queens. Maybe as much as Staten Island.

erm... yea except the whole Staten Island is a borough of NYC and Hoboken is in NJ .

You're a fucking moron.

If you read the post above, she argues that Hoboken is just as much a part of NYC as any of the outer boroughs. I'm saying that it definitely doesn't beat Queens or Brooklyn but that it might beat out Staten Island. It's a joke, dipshit. I fucking know Staten Island is a borough of NYC, you fucking retard.

Haha... I hardly read the posts before it. Honestly, its a message board... people take this shit way too seriously. I read your post out of context, big deal.

[rkitten]

Uh, I know someone who's making 160k a year and has had no difficulty whatsoever paying off his gargantuan student loans. Then again, he was one of the hardworking kids who got on law review and aced his finals.

I would say if you are not aiming for, or fall short of big law pay, it's probably a huge waste of a money (thought the experience will probably be amazing).

[TTTTT]

I've been to Hoboken. Although the train ride is a little long into the city and it's not like living in the city, it's very close and most of the people there are commuting to NYC anyway. It's pretty nice place to live -- I read that it has one of the highest concentrations of wealthy, young single people. I'm rethinking NYC anyway...

I think if I want to go into media/communication law, D.C. would be a good place. And to the smart-ass above, D.C. is considered northeast by some definitions. More importantly, it's northeast to me because I wouldn't live any lower. I also never said it was cheap.

I'm open to other cities though, like Chicago. I worry that Boston's cost of living is insane, but I've even considered Madison, Notre Dame, and places in Pennsylvania. I think I really need to just visit these places. I'll apply and see what my options are after acceptance letters since I'll have a fee waiver.

Boston is cheaper than NYC, FYI.

There are a lot of parts of the boston area that are reasonable. Somerville is relatively cheap, as well as parts of cambridge, brookline, and chestnut hill.

[20160810]

This thread sure does away with the stereotype that New Yorkers are unpleasant people...

[TTH]

My girlfriend and I were arguing about apartments in NYC today, and I want to appeal to TLS authority. Does the COA budget for NYC schools provide enough room/board money to get an apartment in Manhattan/Brooklyn (close to Fordham)?

[OperaSoprano]

My girlfriend and I were arguing about apartments in NYC today, and I want to appeal to TLS authority. Does the COA budget for NYC schools provide enough room/board money to get an apartment in Manhattan/Brooklyn (close to Fordham)?

Yes, but you will need a roommate (or a working significant other with whom to split the rent.) The school provides for about $1400 in rent and utilities (depending on how you budget), and we come in just fine. My roommate and I are both 1Ls, and we live six blocks north of campus. Our rent is about $1270/month for each of us.

You can get a studio for $1400, but it won't be anywhere near the school, so it's a trade-off. If you plan to live with your gf, and she has a job, or COA loans of her own, you should be fine for the more proximate housing.

[LawDog3]

Yes, in my opinion, especially if compared to a Southern law school.

From the perspective of a Texan:

A year of attendance all included is about 65-70k. In the south, it's more like 35-40k for a year.

Then when you actually go to work, your 160k salary can buy what 50k would buy in Texas. But the starting salaries are 160k in Texas, so you're several times better off.

Suppose you make partner at a top white-shoe law firm in NYC; per partner profits are 2.5 million, which can buy around what $500,000 would in Texas. But top firm per partner profits in Texas have passed 3 million.

Suppose you went to St. John's in NYC instead of Columbia or something... In that case you'd have to ask JD Underground people for their opinions.

Not quite that extreme. Your money isn't 5-6 times better in the south than in NYC. But i will concede that your NY dollar is about 1/3 the value of the southern dollar.

[paratactical]

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