Top Law Schools

Top 5% will get BigLaw at RWU. They have shockingly some firms from Boston and NYC interviewing there.

RWU's bar passage rate for the past 7 years has averaged in the high 60% range, which isn't good but could be worse. The problem really seems to be with employment opportunities. Average private sector starting salary--and remember, these are self-reported, so they are probably a little inflated, and they don't take into account those that don't have jobs at all and are earning $0--is only $55,000, which is what you can make teaching public school in some places. That's shameful. And to say nothing of the fact that typically 1/4 of the graduating class doesn't even have a job 9 MONTHS after graduating.

I would go to Pacific. By comparison, 9 month employment tends to be between 95 and 100%, bar passage averages are about the same as RWU (but for the CA Bar which is supposed to be harder than other states), and average salaries are above $70,000.

Jwatson wrote:Top 5% will get BigLaw at RWU. They have shockingly some firms from Boston and NYC interviewing there.

I would love to know what you predicate this on? Seriously. Is it because the website says a few of these firms go there?

I am a 2L at Roger Williams. I went there because I recived a full ride. Its contigent on remaining in the top 1/3 which is not easy but my class is the most competitive class they have had. I chose to attend RWU instead of several other schools including a tier 1 because I go to school for free and I recive scholarships to live off of. Law school wehn it is all said and done will cost me 3,500. Also since we are the only game in town there are jobs out there. Granted you always want to perform well but if you for instance stay in the Honors Program and graduate you will get a good job. The professors are top notch, if you don't belive me check credentials or just sit in on a class. I realize we are just a tier 4 but being the only law school in the state has its perks. How often does anyone get to have lunch and dinner with State Supreme Court Justices, which I have done over 6 times. I also got the oopurtunity to have a one on one conversation with Justice Scalia (not my favorite person) because my professor Nikki Kuckes clerked for him after she graduated from Yale. All in all I recommend the school as long as you can stay in the top half at least. To be honest its all about your personality in interviews balanced with your academic success. In todays age where its all about a name I am happy with my decision and do to my performance on both Moot Court and trial team I already have a job lined up with a great firm and I am in my second year!

Lawgasm wrote:I am a 2L at Roger Williams. I went there because I recived a full ride. Its contigent on remaining in the top 1/3 which is not easy but my class is the most competitive class they have had. I chose to attend RWU instead of several other schools including a tier 1 because I go to school for free and I recive scholarships to live off of. Law school wehn it is all said and done will cost me 3,500. Also since we are the only game in town there are jobs out there. Granted you always want to perform well but if you for instance stay in the Honors Program and graduate you will get a good job. The professors are top notch, if you don't belive me check credentials or just sit in on a class. I realize we are just a tier 4 but being the only law school in the state has its perks. How often does anyone get to have lunch and dinner with State Supreme Court Justices, which I have done over 6 times. I also got the oopurtunity to have a one on one conversation with Justice Scalia (not my favorite person) because my professor Nikki Kuckes clerked for him after she graduated from Yale. All in all I recommend the school as long as you can stay in the top half at least. To be honest its all about your personality in interviews balanced with your academic success. In todays age where its all about a name I am happy with my decision and do to my performance on both Moot Court and trial team I already have a job lined up with a great firm and I am in my second year!

flame.

coolkatz321 wrote:

Lawgasm wrote:I am a 2L at Roger Williams. I went there because I recived a full ride. Its contigent on remaining in the top 1/3 which is not easy but my class is the most competitive class they have had. I chose to attend RWU instead of several other schools including a tier 1 because I go to school for free and I recive scholarships to live off of. Law school wehn it is all said and done will cost me 3,500. Also since we are the only game in town there are jobs out there. Granted you always want to perform well but if you for instance stay in the Honors Program and graduate you will get a good job. The professors are top notch, if you don't belive me check credentials or just sit in on a class. I realize we are just a tier 4 but being the only law school in the state has its perks. How often does anyone get to have lunch and dinner with State Supreme Court Justices, which I have done over 6 times. I also got the oopurtunity to have a one on one conversation with Justice Scalia (not my favorite person) because my professor Nikki Kuckes clerked for him after she graduated from Yale. All in all I recommend the school as long as you can stay in the top half at least. To be honest its all about your personality in interviews balanced with your academic success. In todays age where its all about a name I am happy with my decision and do to my performance on both Moot Court and trial team I already have a job lined up with a great firm and I am in my second year!

flame.

120% flame.. Wow.. This was a good one!! That slow of a day at the old admissions office of RWU??

Lawgasm wrote:I am a 2L at Roger Williams. I went there because I recived a full ride. Its contigent on remaining in the top 1/3 which is not easy but my class is the most competitive class they have had. I chose to attend RWU instead of several other schools including a tier 1 because I go to school for free and I recive scholarships to live off of. Law school wehn it is all said and done will cost me 3,500. Also since we are the only game in town there are jobs out there. Granted you always want to perform well but if you for instance stay in the Honors Program and graduate you will get a good job. The professors are top notch, if you don't belive me check credentials or just sit in on a class. I realize we are just a tier 4 but being the only law school in the state has its perks. How often does anyone get to have lunch and dinner with State Supreme Court Justices, which I have done over 6 times. I also got the oopurtunity to have a one on one conversation with Justice Scalia (not my favorite person) because my professor Nikki Kuckes clerked for him after she graduated from Yale. All in all I recommend the school as long as you can stay in the top half at least. To be honest its all about your personality in interviews balanced with your academic success. In todays age where its all about a name I am happy with my decision and do to my performance on both Moot Court and trial team I already have a job lined up with a great firm and I am in my second year!

That confirms it. I am not going.

Flame? Admissions? Seriously grow up you asked a question and get an honest response. Its funny because I just recieved an internship at CVS Corporate in Woonsocket RI in the Real Estate Division which is paid. How? Because I work hard and interview well. You guys need to open up your eyes and realize that it takes more then just a brand name now you need to make connections. Being the only game in town makes that much easier if you are aggresive and professional. Make your choice either way but I'm graduating with zero debt, a job, and connections. Its all about the person. I know people at much more prestigious schools who cant even get a paid internship for the summer. On the flip side sure there are kids coming out of tier 1s that get in off the school name but seriously bust your ass and make an impression and who the hell cares. In this economy you need to invest in your people skills a name cant carry everyone but a good interview and some resume fodder sure the hell can.

Lawgasm wrote:Flame? Admissions? Seriously grow up you asked a question and get an honest response. Its funny because I just recieved an internship at CVS Corporate in Woonsocket RI in the Real Estate Division which is paid. How? Because I work hard and interview well. You guys need to open up your eyes and realize that it takes more then just a brand name now you need to make connections. Being the only game in town makes that much easier if you are aggresive and professional. Make your choice either way but I'm graduating with zero debt, a job, and connections. Its all about the person. I know people at much more prestigious schools who cant even get a paid internship for the summer. On the flip side sure there are kids coming out of tier 1s that get in off the school name but seriously bust your ass and make an impression and who the hell cares. In this economy you need to invest in your people skills a name cant carry everyone but a good interview and some resume fodder sure the hell can.

Bull crap.

Some on this board are ridiculous. If you base your decision on your suspicion that an admissions rep. might be trying to trick you here, you need to bone up on your common sense and critical thinking skills. Ditto if you think that RWU being placed RipOffReport report means anything at all. I see a t1 on there too... not to mention the site clearly requires no evidence to back up any claims made, but does require all organizations to pay hefty fees to have posts removed, regardless of evidence/facts. Their profit model is entirely based on a scheme to bilk businesses. The site is largely worthless.

Now, I do not know much about RWU outside of what is readily available. I read this thread and see a number of claims that are based on anecdotal opinion, but not provable statistics. That is fine, but take it with a grain of salt. Someone said they had a low bar passage rate, but it appears that for MA they are in the low 90s, not 60s. The RipOff complaint whines about the school not teaching the bar, but everyone I know from t1 and t14 schools has told me that their schools never do that either.

I am a 0L intrigued by RWU largely because I want to stay in New England and they offered a full ride. I probably will not go, but will research carefully before deciding either way. I want employment numbers that are facts, not opinions. If anyone has a useful suggestion in this regard--that would be appreciated. I know everyone on this board would tell me to take ~9.5k/yr at Northeastern over the full ride at RWU, but I will dig around anyway. I briefly went to undergrad in the area, and loved RI. I realize that RWU would probably mean that I'd stay there...

Look, if youre considering attending Roger Williams, chances are its the only school you got into (other than Cooley). But youve read everything there is to read about Cooley so you know that you shouldnt go there. You dont particularly want to be a lawyer, but you sure as hell dont want to get a job so you look at Roger Williams.
But Roger Williams...theres not much information out there. So its a bit of a mystery. You hope for the best then.
Save your $50,000. May seem worth the gamble if youre right out of college and dont have a good sense of money but youll be paying that **** off for the next 20 years (unless you take drastic actions which Ill leave up to you to figure out).
Lets look at the information that does exist about this school. Theres two threads on the Law School Discussion board. Both of them have the word "scam" in the title. Maybe that just happened to be the Word of the Day but its certainly an apt term to use for this school.
Then you can search this board for "roger williams". Youll find threads with such titles as "worst law school", several about Cooley, and one must-read thread simply called "Roger Williams". Theres some quality information in that thread.
I went to the school and Im telling you the place reeks of scam. Youll find below a mere taste of the...well, I dont want to say "scam" again...lets go with fraud.
For several years the incoming class was about 100 people. Then they decided to double that number. Twice the students means twice the tuition. But as far as I know, there was no signifigant increase in faculty, classroom space, hours etc. If theres double the number of students, surely you would need more faculty.
Not so. Because they knew that half the class would not go on the second year. They devised a scheme where every class has to have a C- average. Something like that. C to C-. So if the professor gives a lot of A's, hes going to have to give a lot of F's and you know how it is. So practically speaking, everybody in the class gets low Bs at best. The overwhelming majority get Cs or worse.
Thats a problem. You go to a crap school, you at least want to have good grades to show. You wont get them at this school. But thats not the greatest concern.
They have a requirement that your GPA has to be over a C+ to continue after the first year. Might be a C. Most schools that Im aware of have like a C- requirement with none of that "every class has to have a C average" ****.
Anyway, do the math. If every class has to have a C+ average about half the class is going to be over that, half is going to be below. And if you have to have a C+ or better average to go to the second year, that means half the class is going to have to quit.
I know of no school that does this with the possible exception of Cooley (which also has an outrageous turnover rate). If you want to take your chances that youll be in the necessary top 50% (either because youre really sharp or a better cheat than the rest of them -- cheating is rampant) then you might want to enroll.
If youre one of the fortunate few who completes the first year, youre basically in the clear (as is the case with all schools). That is until you graduate. The only schools that have lower average salaries than those of Roger Williams graduates are in the deep South. And I guess if you factor in the lower standard of living there...Roger Williams could very well be the worst.
Theres a site somewhere that ranks the schools based on how many years it will take you to repay the loans. Takes into consideration the tuition, average salary, things like that. Cooley was last. Roger Williams was second to last. Average time for repaying the loans -- over ten years. Thats for somebody who graduated.
Then you have a lot of scandals, newspaper investigations, etc that you can look into if youre not yet convinced that this is not a school you should be attending. You can also go to the faculty page on the school's website to see pictures and such of professors who were fired/quit YEARS ago. Maybe one day theyll update.
Oh right, and about the faculty. Some were excellent, some were shockingly bad. I dont mean your run of the mill, everyday, doesnt-care-about-teaching bad...I mean bad. Awful. Totally incompetent. And youll be graded by these clueless ****ers. Good luck with that.
As for the students...from my experience youre going to see a lot of idiots. Mindbogglingly stupid people. People who you would have never guessed would be in law school. And really...it is not a legitamate school. Theres also a few decent people, of course.
Naturally, some people graduate. If nobody graduated, the place would get shut down and then their scam would be over and theyd have to think of some other way to make money. Like a pyramid scheme or...I dont know...some kind of insurance fraud. And of course some people get good jobs after their time there. But thats purely coincedental. They've been caught by ProJo lying about job success.
So as for Roger Williams University School of Law...Im afraid that it does not receive my endorsement. Anyone thinking of enrolling should really stop and do some serious thinking. If you cant go anywhere other than there or Cooley, get a job in a law firm and apply next year to half-way decent schools. Or consider different programs to enroll in. Medicine, psychology, get a master's in your undergraduate subject...or something else entirely...theres loads you can do. Or just get a job.
But if you go to RWU chances are very good that youre going to either flunk out with a $50,000 debt to take care of, or youre going to graduate and be an attorney making $40,000 a year with a $150,000 debt. If youre a glutton for wage slavery, Roger Williams is your choice. They should consider that as their new slogan.

+1

-1

Did you actually graduate from RWU Law, or just fail out and end up jaded? On the other hand, if you did graduate, did you wind up with a really awful job?

I stumbled across this board by accident and had to read through this thread. Then I had to create an account just to reply.

I graduated from RWU Law. I was accepted by about 13 different law schools and chose to go there (and no, I was not offered any kind of a scholarship). You are going to get the same legal education there that you're going to get anywhere else. Trust me, I work with many a fellow attorney who attended significantly higher-ranked law schools like Duke, BC, BU, and Northeastern, and they all were required to take the same ABA-mandated courses and all had awful professors and great professors. The difference being that your job prospects are significantly limited from jump street when you decide to attend a T4 law school as opposed to T2 or T1. I knew this going into the ordeal. I was nowhere near top of my class (I graduated about middle of the pack), but I did exceptionally well in the areas that interested me most (corporate, securities, and tax law). I knew I was not heading to BigLaw following graduation, but I used what I knew to my advantage. I focused on areas that interested me, did well in those areas, played those strengths up and parlayed the experience into a tax LL.M. from BU. From there I went on to a six figure position in M&A.

My point is, you take out of the experience what you put into it. Now if you have the opportunity to get a free ride to RWU or pay for a T1 or T2 legal education, I would take the later, simply because it's common sense. In a stable legal job market, your job prospects are much better in such a situation. But all is not lost if you decide on RWU. You can put the effort in and pull out a rewarding, high-paying career. However, I will agree with a previous poster, even in a stable legal job market, your career prospects out of RWU are much better in New England than elsewhere in the country.

From a non-academia POV, the town of Bristol is beautiful. I had the best three years of my life at RWU and I would not trade them for anything in the world. I met my wife there and started my career and professional life there. I owe a lot to that school and some of the professors that work there, so I get a little heated when I see/hear people rip it apart and refer to it as a "scam." I have a JD from an acredited law school that I worked hard for and that I earned and that has allowed me to do everything I have always wanted to do in life, which is a lot more than most everyone on this board can say. Have a little respect and a little tact before you tear something apart about which you know nothing.

Lawgasm wrote:I just recieved an internship at CVS.

You got a job at a drug store? Good for you! I mean, it's not Walgreens, but still, good for you! Do they let you work the cash register from the get-go, or do you have to mop up vomit for a couple weeks before moving up?

Deal Law wrote:-1

Did you actually graduate from RWU Law, or just fail out and end up jaded? On the other hand, if you did graduate, did you wind up with a really awful job?

I stumbled across this board by accident and had to read through this thread. Then I had to create an account just to reply.

I graduated from RWU Law. I was accepted by about 13 different law schools and chose to go there (and no, I was not offered any kind of a scholarship). You are going to get the same legal education there that you're going to get anywhere else. Trust me, I work with many a fellow attorney who attended significantly higher-ranked law schools like Duke, BC, BU, and Northeastern, and they all were required to take the same ABA-mandated courses and all had awful professors and great professors. The difference being that your job prospects are significantly limited from jump street when you decide to attend a T4 law school as opposed to T2 or T1. I knew this going into the ordeal. I was nowhere near top of my class (I graduated about middle of the pack), but I did exceptionally well in the areas that interested me most (corporate, securities, and tax law). I knew I was not heading to BigLaw following graduation, but I used what I knew to my advantage. I focused on areas that interested me, did well in those areas, played those strengths up and parlayed the experience into a tax LL.M. from BU. From there I went on to a six figure position in M&A.

My point is, you take out of the experience what you put into it. Now if you have the opportunity to get a free ride to RWU or pay for a T1 or T2 legal education, I would take the later, simply because it's common sense. In a stable legal job market, your job prospects are much better in such a situation. But all is not lost if you decide on RWU. You can put the effort in and pull out a rewarding, high-paying career. However, I will agree with a previous poster, even in a stable legal job market, your career prospects out of RWU are much better in New England than elsewhere in the country.

From a non-academia POV, the town of Bristol is beautiful. I had the best three years of my life at RWU and I would not trade them for anything in the world. I met my wife there and started my career and professional life there. I owe a lot to that school and some of the professors that work there, so I get a little heated when I see/hear people rip it apart and refer to it as a "scam." I have a JD from an acredited law school that I worked hard for and that I earned and that has allowed me to do everything I have always wanted to do in life, which is a lot more than most everyone on this board can say. Have a little respect and a little tact before you tear something apart about which you know nothing.

+1. TITCR.

There is a whole lot of nonsense going on in this thread. I don’t want to give in to it too much and DealLaw pretty much covered everything, so I’ll try to be brief.

I go to RWU Law now and it seems that people on this site (even ones who claim to have graduated from RWU) are either misinformed or are intentionally trying to give it a bad reputation. RWU is a T4 school, so it is clearly “less prestigious” than a T1 or T2, but it is still a respectable school. However, TLS is filled with prestige whores, so no T4 school will get an objective assessment here.

DealLaw is not alone. I know plenty of graduates who are doing very well for themselves. I'm sure I’ll do great as well. In fact, I’ll be working as a SA this summer (which is more than some students who go to T1 or T2 schools can say).

Marsrover: Judging by your poorly written and inaccurate post, it seems that you’re the “mindbogglingly stupid” one. Don’t blame the school for your failed career; they can only do so much with what they’re given. It is widely known that the curve is a B-. How did you make it through 3 years without knowing what the curve is?

ps. If any 0L wants accurate information on RWU Law, message me – I’d be happy to help.