New US News Rankings 2023-2024 Forum
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools
- Wild Card
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
It's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:50 amYou can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Classic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!Wild Card wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 amIt's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:50 amYou can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
You're fake newsAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:18 amClassic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!Wild Card wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 amIt's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:50 amYou can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
It’s silly to compare S to S? Cue Spider-Man pointing memeAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:13 amYou're fake newsAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:18 amClassic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!Wild Card wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:03 amIt's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:50 amYou can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
yet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb
median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse
median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
dont sleep on UNLV
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
More like FedSuckAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:57 pmyet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb
median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
That's nice in theory but do you really think it explains why Chi has twice the clerkship rate?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:57 pmyet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb
median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Yep. Their judge and prestige scores are lower than HLS'.Access wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:39 pmThat's nice in theory but do you really think it explains why Chi has twice the clerkship rate?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:57 pmyet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb
median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Although US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Strawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.CondescendingLiberal wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:39 amAlthough US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
That's cute, you think the rankings reflect reality.The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:47 pmStrawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.CondescendingLiberal wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:39 amAlthough US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Sure, yeah, to some extent. They're not random.CondescendingLiberal wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 2:16 pmThat's cute, you think the rankings reflect reality.The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 12:47 pmStrawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.CondescendingLiberal wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:39 amAlthough US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
What a ringing endorsement
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Looks like past me was right, as usualCondescendingLiberal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:36 pmNot an associate, just being intellectually honestMoneytrees wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:25 pmAre there any other obscure metrics Cravath associates could desperately cling to in an attempt to salvage the prestige of yore?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:02 pmAnd number 1 in average deal size, which matters far moreMoneytrees wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:14 pmCravath 13th in PPP in the 2023 rankings....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:35 amOh, now I get it. You bristle at the idea that Cravath is better than your firm. Fwiw, I'm not at either Cravath or Wachtell, and I have zero skin in the game. But saying that Cravath is a generic V10 is laughable. The truth is, it's the best generalist firm out there because all firms (yes, including Wachtell) are doing the same work and have similar clients. But only Cravath and Wachtell have the reputations that they do, and only Cravath is strong in every relevant practice group (including litigation, where Wachtell is comparatively weak). Cravath will continue to top the rankings, and you will continue to seethe about it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:24 amYeah lol the people who are butthurt about preftige are always the ones trying to claim the preftige.
Cravath is cooler than everyone!
Why?
Because it is
But why?
Because it is and everyone knows that it is
But why?
SHUT UP AND LET ME ENJOY MY PREFTIGE WHILE I WORK HARDER THAN YOU FOR LESS MONEY, GOD DAMN IT!!!
*********
Cravath has been and will be very important for historical purposes. But in the modern era, they are a totally generic V10 with absolutely nothing specific that anyone can point to for why we should care about them. Not the best, the richest, the biggest, the market leader, or even uniquely managed anymore.
Wachtell is the only V10 that’s actually special, so if those people want to tell me how cool they are and that they’re better than me and my firm, go for it. Cravath not so much.
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/vault-1 ... rica-2023/
"Of course it was. Here’s what Travis Whitsitt, Vault’s law editor, had to say about Cravath’s placement in the latest rankings: “Cravath is the standard against which all other firms measure themselves, with the firm securely atop the Vault Law 100 year after year and also within the top 10 of multiple practice area rankings. Cravath moves, and other firms follow. The firm has established industry standards on hiring and compensation for years, and even when it isn’t the first to move, Cravath’s decision to join influences the market—as with this year’s compensation and special bonus announcements. After all, every associate is well aware of the meaning of the term ‘Cravath scale.'”
Cravath continues to remain the namesake for salaries because of its prestigious pull, with survey respondents referring to the firm as an “industry trend setter” and a “compensation leader.”"
https://abovethelaw.com/2023/06/vaults- ... gion-2024/
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Would anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
???Masterdebater7 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:52 pmWould anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Meaning that the rankings are more screwed up, than usual, as everyone scrambles to do a workaround on the Students for Fair Admissions SCOTUS case. Such as not gathering data on GPA/test scores in an effort to avoid future lawsuits.The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:12 pm???Masterdebater7 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:52 pmWould anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
How is that relevant to the above discussion? I see mostly people spatting about prestigeMasterdebater7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 5:15 amMeaning that the rankings are more screwed up, than usual, as everyone scrambles to do a workaround on the Students for Fair Admissions SCOTUS case. Such as not gathering data on GPA/test scores in an effort to avoid future lawsuits.The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:12 pm???Masterdebater7 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:52 pmWould anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?
- KissMyAxe
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
So many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.
But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:
1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others
Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.
But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:
1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others
Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
How do you think GULC stacks up against like Michigan or Berkeley in DC? Does the geography help GULC, or is Michigan more regarded because of the portability and perception of a better school.KissMyAxe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:37 amSo many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.
But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:
1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others
Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
If you want to know about DC look at law firm websites and count who comes from what schools (and honors percentage) and look at the ABA and NALP stats for percentage and numbers of students who go from certain schools to DC. All verifiable raw data comes from these sources and anyone who isn’t using them to inform their advice is likely talking out of their ass for unknown reasons (at a cost to innocent questioners like yourself).
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Re: New US News Rankings 2023-2024
Did you read the post you're quoting??? My emphasis addedTransfermeout wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:56 amHow do you think GULC stacks up against like Michigan or Berkeley in DC? Does the geography help GULC, or is Michigan more regarded because of the portability and perception of a better school.KissMyAxe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:37 amSo many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.
But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:
1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others
Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.
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