New US News Rankings 2023-2024 Forum

[Anonymous User]

And after 14 pages of squabbling, the “preview” released by US News won’t even be the final 2023-24 rankings, which are delayed indefinitely as announced this week: https://www.usnews.com/info/blogs/press ... s-rankings

Anyone else find it hilarious that in reality what “dropping out” of the rankings meant was that the law schools would no longer provide data to US News. Yet, now the schools are all essentially requesting to correct/challenge/add data. Law school profs and administrators are so full of shit when they act like they don’t care about these rankings.

Maybe, but we don't know which law schools requested to add data. It could be Chicago

Per this NY Times piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/us/2 ... chool.html), it seems at least Yale and Berkeley requested corrections.

What's actually funny is US News publishing some nonsensical rankings (Duke above CLS?) that purport to focus on outcomes but get the ABA-submitted employment data so blatantly wrong as to essentially bait these schools into submitting corrections. If USNWR at least used accurate data, not sure schools would've reached out to correct things like was suggested, but it's funny that USNWR got the data wrong enough to force the schools' hands. (+ If USNWR data was indeed accurate, I think they'd try to have some integrity and stand by their preview a little more...)

Derek Muller, a prof who writes a lot about rankings dynamics, says USNWR is right and YLS and Berkeley’s concerns are bad-faith. No idea if that’s right but I think it’s too soon to say that USNWR messed up.

https://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2023 ... ethodology

Why are 30 YLS grads doing “school funded” positions? In the context of YLS, literally what is that?

Public interest students getting fellowships.

That’s why Harvard is better. The only thing that matters is biglaw + FC.

Neither PI nor Fed gov nor academia paths like PHDs has ever been a consideration in school quality.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else find it hilarious that in reality what “dropping out” of the rankings meant was that the law schools would no longer provide data to US News. Yet, now the schools are all essentially requesting to correct/challenge/add data. Law school profs and administrators are so full of shit when they act like they don’t care about these rankings.

Maybe, but we don't know which law schools requested to add data. It could be Chicago

Per this NY Times piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/us/2 ... chool.html), it seems at least Yale and Berkeley requested corrections.

What's actually funny is US News publishing some nonsensical rankings (Duke above CLS?) that purport to focus on outcomes but get the ABA-submitted employment data so blatantly wrong as to essentially bait these schools into submitting corrections. If USNWR at least used accurate data, not sure schools would've reached out to correct things like was suggested, but it's funny that USNWR got the data wrong enough to force the schools' hands. (+ If USNWR data was indeed accurate, I think they'd try to have some integrity and stand by their preview a little more...)

Derek Muller, a prof who writes a lot about rankings dynamics, says USNWR is right and YLS and Berkeley’s concerns are bad-faith. No idea if that’s right but I think it’s too soon to say that USNWR messed up.

https://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2023 ... ethodology

Why are 30 YLS grads doing “school funded” positions? In the context of YLS, literally what is that?

Public interest students getting fellowships.

That’s why Harvard is better. The only thing that matters is biglaw + FC.

Neither PI nor Fed gov nor academia paths like PHDs has ever been a consideration in school quality.

obvious troll don't take the bait

[Anonymous User]

Maybe, but we don't know which law schools requested to add data. It could be Chicago

Per this NY Times piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/us/2 ... chool.html), it seems at least Yale and Berkeley requested corrections.

What's actually funny is US News publishing some nonsensical rankings (Duke above CLS?) that purport to focus on outcomes but get the ABA-submitted employment data so blatantly wrong as to essentially bait these schools into submitting corrections. If USNWR at least used accurate data, not sure schools would've reached out to correct things like was suggested, but it's funny that USNWR got the data wrong enough to force the schools' hands. (+ If USNWR data was indeed accurate, I think they'd try to have some integrity and stand by their preview a little more...)

Derek Muller, a prof who writes a lot about rankings dynamics, says USNWR is right and YLS and Berkeley’s concerns are bad-faith. No idea if that’s right but I think it’s too soon to say that USNWR messed up.

https://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2023 ... ethodology

Why are 30 YLS grads doing “school funded” positions? In the context of YLS, literally what is that?

Public interest students getting fellowships.

That’s why Harvard is better. The only thing that matters is biglaw + FC.

Neither PI nor Fed gov nor academia paths like PHDs has ever been a consideration in school quality.

obvious troll don't take the bait

It’s 100% on topic for this thread.

How do you judge school quality or what shapes your perception of the “average” student at such school?

Do you blindly accept USNWR or ATL or TLS?

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

[throwawayt14]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

You know it's TLS when you see people say working at Cravath isn't one of the most elite positions

[throwawayt14]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

You know it's TLS when you see people say working at Cravath isn't one of the most elite positions

Attack me all you want, but none of my classmates went to Yale saying "I want to work at Cravath."

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

You know it's TLS when you see people say working at Cravath isn't one of the most elite positions

Attack me all you want, but none of my classmates went to Yale saying "I want to work at Cravath."

Probably a culture misfit

[dyemond]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

Yeah agreed that you can't really call school funded jobs unicorn. I guess my question is, are these positions those types of orgs, just unpaid?

Re the people saying I don't want biglaw anyway, that's cute but how am I supposed to use that information if I want to assess school quality? What makes you better than CUNY law? The argument for using clerkships and unicorn PI as metrics is this is more prestigious and selective than a top firm and demonstrates that these students could have gotten biglaw. But if you're not getting particularly prestigious jobs, well.

[throwawayt14]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

[Anonymous User]

At my lower T14 there were a few school funded jobs but they were known to be for desperate kids only. You only really looked into it after the bar. Obviously YLS is not the same etc, but I am curious how the mechanics of this works? When do you look for these jobs (bc if you have a paid offer from NATO you're not going to go school funded right)? How much do they pay?

[throwawayt14]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

Yeah agreed that you can't really call school funded jobs unicorn. I guess my question is, are these positions those types of orgs, just unpaid?

Re the people saying I don't want biglaw anyway, that's cute but how am I supposed to use that information if I want to assess school quality? What makes you better than CUNY law? The argument for using clerkships and unicorn PI as metrics is this is more prestigious and selective than a top firm and demonstrates that these students could have gotten biglaw. But if you're not getting particularly prestigious jobs, well.

Why the peer rating was quite useful.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

Yeah agreed that you can't really call school funded jobs unicorn. I guess my question is, are these positions those types of orgs, just unpaid?

Re the people saying I don't want biglaw anyway, that's cute but how am I supposed to use that information if I want to assess school quality? What makes you better than CUNY law? The argument for using clerkships and unicorn PI as metrics is this is more prestigious and selective than a top firm and demonstrates that these students could have gotten biglaw. But if you're not getting particularly prestigious jobs, well.

Why the peer rating was quite useful.

Peer rating is just other schools profs right? Not sure I put much weight in that. Quantified outcomes is best imo. But this particular type of outcome might be hard to quantify.

[throwawayt14]

At my lower T14 there were a few school funded jobs but they were known to be for desperate kids only. You only really looked into it after the bar. Obviously YLS is not the same etc, but I am curious how the mechanics of this works? When do you look for these jobs (bc if you have a paid offer from NATO you're not going to go school funded right)? How much do they pay?

$50,000 if through Yale, though I am aware of people stacking this fellowship (not sure if the school knew that though). Not a bad deal, though Yale PI has plenty of fabulously wealthy students anyway. There are a ton of ways to get PI work at Yale.

https://law.yale.edu/student-life/caree ... ellowships

[dyemond]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering GPA/LSAT medians and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployed grads.

I get YLS’s complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so immersed in the academia ecosystem, it’s sure weird that they’re blind to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

[throwawayt14]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering median and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployeds.

I get YLS’ complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so absorbed by academia, it’s sure weird that they’re blinded to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

I do not disagree. YLS started this fake controversy, and any negative repercussions are well deserved. I was merely clarifying that YLS's school-funded jobs are not the same as the sinecures other schools create for failed graduates.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

You know it's TLS when you see people say working at Cravath isn't one of the most elite positions

Attack me all you want, but none of my classmates went to Yale saying "I want to work at Cravath."

Probably a culture misfit

Different strokes for different folks. For example, it’s rare to find corporate interested folks who say “I want to clerk for a federal judge”, even for a feeder or even SCOTUS, or saying “I want to work for X boutique.”

If you are corporate interested and your goals are making top money as a partner, starting your own business or going in-house, then the high prestige for litigator routes (and the upfront work required in law school to take those routes) are just not appealing.

Schools like Yale play the long game and wager that a student body with diverse interests makes for a higher status school regardless of the current rankings vogue. Students taking non-traditional routes like school paid PI leading into interesting community leadership positions is likely rightly judged by Yale and other schools as a more desirable outcome than a biglaw or FC+biglaw grind and bust outcome.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering median and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployeds.

I get YLS’ complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so absorbed by academia, it’s sure weird that they’re blinded to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

I do not disagree. YLS started this fake controversy, and any negative repercussions are well deserved. I was merely clarifying that YLS's school-funded jobs are not the same as the sinecures other schools create for failed graduates.

Are you at YLS?

[throwawayt14]

Are you at YLS?

Graduated.

[Anonymous User]

I guarantee you anyone taking a t6 school-funded PI fellowship could've gotten a job at DLA Piper if they wanted to.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering median and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployeds.

I get YLS’ complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so absorbed by academia, it’s sure weird that they’re blinded to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

I do not disagree. YLS started this fake controversy, and any negative repercussions are well deserved. I was merely clarifying that YLS's school-funded jobs are not the same as the sinecures other schools create for failed graduates.

Are you at YLS?

Good question for that poster. If these jobs are so special and amazing, then list them out and let us be convinced.

[Anonymous User]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering GPA/LSAT medians and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployed grads.

I get YLS’s complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so immersed in the academia ecosystem, it’s sure weird that they’re blind to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

If a significant amount of those PI placements are only because it's school funded, does this hold? Also do these jobs lead to academia? I get that's it's still super prestigious but if they continue to slip behind on clerkships it's hard to see how academia doesn't follow.

[throwawayt14]

Good question for that poster. If these jobs are so special and amazing, then list them out and let us be convinced.

Without me needing to dig up years-old employment data, which I don't even know is still available, you can decide for yourself whether you seriously believe that Yale Law graduates are incapable of getting jobs during a huge legal boom and require the school to bail them out.

[dyemond]

15% of the class in school funded jobs is a bit insane imo but what type of PI fellowships are these? If they are legit unicorns that are impossible to get outside of Yale (or SLS maybe, or top 5% at a T14), then that's still impressive. But if it's garden variety PI then even if it's self selection it's kinda lame.

It's Yale. I don't know the exact breakdown, but quite a few of them are the legit unicorn type deals students from other schools would kill to have. But Yale heavily skews PI/fellowship anyway, it's a disappointment for most students there to go there and end up at like Cravath. Everyone at Yale envisions themselves, rightly or wrongly, in the most elite positions. IMO it makes for a toxic environment.

Ngl school-funded PI sounds like BS for employment stats.

Unicorn PI is “unicorn” because it’s selective and pays. An internship that school pays for is not particularly desirable.

At my school, unicorn PI was paid positions with ACLU, commutation/exoneration outfits, DOJ, etc. One guy I know snagged something with NATO.

It allows more students to do those types of gigs. For example, the ACLU has 4 funded spots total, but they are more than happy to accept 8 students. They go to Yale and get Yale to fund their extra students. And no one can tell the difference later. Another reason is because EJW and Skadden don't want to only give their fellowships out to Yale students.

That may be true but the point of the full time employment metric is to gauge the placement power of the school. YLS, with eye-watering GPA/LSAT medians and insanely strong alumni profile, can stand on its reputation as a finishing school for the elite.

Giving full credit to these positions can mask weakness in placement—in the wake of the recession, large numbers of school-funded positions were just synonyms for unemployed grads.

I get YLS’s complaint but they’re in a unique position compared to the rest of the field and for a school that’s so immersed in the academia ecosystem, it’s sure weird that they’re blind to their own privilege in throwing this specific tantrum.

If a significant amount of those PI placements are only because it's school funded, does this hold? Also do these jobs lead to academia? I get that's it's still super prestigious but if they continue to slip behind on clerkships it's hard to see how academia doesn't follow.

That’s what I’m saying.