New US News Rankings 2023-2024 Forum

[Anonymous User]

You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools

[Wild Card]

You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools

It's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.

[Anonymous User]

You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools

It's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.

Classic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!

[Anonymous User]

You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools

It's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.

Classic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!

You're fake news

[Anonymous User]

You can all say whatever you want, and live in your own little TLS world. Thirty-plus years of US News has not changed the fact that Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are the undisputed kings of law schools

It's silly to compare S to Y and S. It doesn't have nearly the number of distinguished alumni as the other two.

Classic east-coast homer in denial over how Stanford and Chicago have outright passed H and are directly competing with Y. Sad!

You're fake news

It’s silly to compare S to S? Cue Spider-Man pointing meme

[Anonymous User]

yet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb


median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse

[Anonymous User]

dont sleep on UNLV

[CondescendingLiberal]

yet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb


median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse

More like FedSuck

[Access]

yet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb


median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse

That's nice in theory but do you really think it explains why Chi has twice the clerkship rate?

[CondescendingLiberal]

yet another reminder that comparing schools based on clerkship % at an arbitrary cutoff after graduation is extremely dumb


median and below median folks at HLS land clerkships all the time, and if you're fedsoc I'm pretty sure you can clerk as long as you have a pulse

That's nice in theory but do you really think it explains why Chi has twice the clerkship rate?

Yep. Their judge and prestige scores are lower than HLS'.

[CondescendingLiberal]

Although US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Although US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.

Strawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.

[CondescendingLiberal]

Although US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.

Strawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.

That's cute, you think the rankings reflect reality.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Although US News says Harvard is now equal to Duke and below Penn, so it's probably more likely that Harvard's reputation, alumni network, and prestige have all collapsed over the past 2 years.

Strawman. The argument is that certain other T14 schools have caught up to HLS, over the past 20 years. It's only manifesting so suddenly in the US News rankings because, well, that's an inherent flaw of ordinal rankings.

That's cute, you think the rankings reflect reality.

Sure, yeah, to some extent. They're not random.

[CondescendingLiberal]

What a ringing endorsement

[CondescendingLiberal]

Found the Cravath associate

Yeah lol the people who are butthurt about preftige are always the ones trying to claim the preftige.

Cravath is cooler than everyone!

Why?

Because it is

But why?

Because it is and everyone knows that it is

But why?

SHUT UP AND LET ME ENJOY MY PREFTIGE WHILE I WORK HARDER THAN YOU FOR LESS MONEY, GOD DAMN IT!!!

*********

Cravath has been and will be very important for historical purposes. But in the modern era, they are a totally generic V10 with absolutely nothing specific that anyone can point to for why we should care about them. Not the best, the richest, the biggest, the market leader, or even uniquely managed anymore.

Wachtell is the only V10 that’s actually special, so if those people want to tell me how cool they are and that they’re better than me and my firm, go for it. Cravath not so much.

Oh, now I get it. You bristle at the idea that Cravath is better than your firm. Fwiw, I'm not at either Cravath or Wachtell, and I have zero skin in the game. But saying that Cravath is a generic V10 is laughable. The truth is, it's the best generalist firm out there because all firms (yes, including Wachtell) are doing the same work and have similar clients. But only Cravath and Wachtell have the reputations that they do, and only Cravath is strong in every relevant practice group (including litigation, where Wachtell is comparatively weak). Cravath will continue to top the rankings, and you will continue to seethe about it.

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/vault-1 ... rica-2023/

"Of course it was. Here’s what Travis Whitsitt, Vault’s law editor, had to say about Cravath’s placement in the latest rankings: “Cravath is the standard against which all other firms measure themselves, with the firm securely atop the Vault Law 100 year after year and also within the top 10 of multiple practice area rankings. Cravath moves, and other firms follow. The firm has established industry standards on hiring and compensation for years, and even when it isn’t the first to move, Cravath’s decision to join influences the market—as with this year’s compensation and special bonus announcements. After all, every associate is well aware of the meaning of the term ‘Cravath scale.'”

Cravath continues to remain the namesake for salaries because of its prestigious pull, with survey respondents referring to the firm as an “industry trend setter” and a “compensation leader.”"

Cravath 13th in PPP in the 2023 rankings....

And number 1 in average deal size, which matters far more

Are there any other obscure metrics Cravath associates could desperately cling to in an attempt to salvage the prestige of yore?

Not an associate, just being intellectually honest

Looks like past me was right, as usual
https://abovethelaw.com/2023/06/vaults- ... gion-2024/

[Masterdebater7]

Would anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?

[The Lsat Airbender]

Would anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?

???

[Masterdebater7]

Would anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?

???

Meaning that the rankings are more screwed up, than usual, as everyone scrambles to do a workaround on the Students for Fair Admissions SCOTUS case. Such as not gathering data on GPA/test scores in an effort to avoid future lawsuits.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Would anyone above like to re-post based on SCOTUS decision today Thursday June 29?

???

Meaning that the rankings are more screwed up, than usual, as everyone scrambles to do a workaround on the Students for Fair Admissions SCOTUS case. Such as not gathering data on GPA/test scores in an effort to avoid future lawsuits.

How is that relevant to the above discussion? I see mostly people spatting about prestige

[KissMyAxe]

So many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.

But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:

1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others

Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.

[Transfermeout]

So many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.

But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:

1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others

Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.

How do you think GULC stacks up against like Michigan or Berkeley in DC? Does the geography help GULC, or is Michigan more regarded because of the portability and perception of a better school.

[anymouseqwerty]

If you want to know about DC look at law firm websites and count who comes from what schools (and honors percentage) and look at the ABA and NALP stats for percentage and numbers of students who go from certain schools to DC. All verifiable raw data comes from these sources and anyone who isn’t using them to inform their advice is likely talking out of their ass for unknown reasons (at a cost to innocent questioners like yourself).

[The Lsat Airbender]

So many 0Ls and law students bickering about how prestigious their school is. Prestige is an entirely pointless criteria, especially because of how regional it is. As someone in St. Louis how prestigious WashU is, and they'll rave about it. Ask people outside that area, and most will have never heard of it. All that matters is how your school does in employment placement, specifically within the geographic market you're interested in. If you go to UVA for sticker because it's a T14 but you want to work in Portland, you're going to end up disappointed.

But because I know law students care so much about this, I'll give you my view of preftige from the DC hiring market:

1. YLS
2. HLS
3. SLS
4. Chicago - Columbia
5. NYU, Penn, UVA, Duke
6. The others

Geography plays a big role. Stanford is a very selective school, but it is a west coast school and the Harvard bias definitely outweighs that on the East Coast. Chicago has distinguished itself from the other CN, but the Ruby has always been a weapon to try to draw talent away from HYS. Hirers still remember that, and that indicates they're not peers in their minds. NYU obviously has much more pull in NYC, but I don't think most hiring partners here in DC would give any extra points for them over the others in that tier. And I'd be shocked if anyone has any clue how Northwestern stacks up vs. Michigan or Berkeley.

How do you think GULC stacks up against like Michigan or Berkeley in DC? Does the geography help GULC, or is Michigan more regarded because of the portability and perception of a better school.

Did you read the post you're quoting??? My emphasis added