UT vs NDLS Forum

[ro566]

Goals are clerkship --> generic Big Law --> Fed. Gov. Work. Not entirely opposed to ending up in TX after graduation, especially for a 1-2 yr clerkship. However, my strong preference would be to end up in a major market on the East Coast or West Coast (or Chicago) and not in TX for any job that is not a clerkship.

NDLS seems to be on the rise with respect to clerkships. For the Class of 2022 they placed more students in FC than UT by a wide margin. However, UT's Big Law numbers seem to be superior and UT places into more prestigious firms than NDLS (CSM, Skadden vs. Faegre, Dentons).

Roughly equal COA. Is this as tough as I think it is?

[andythefir]

I’m an NDLS grad who worked in Texas. If you don’t want to work in Texas it would be weird to go to UT. There are surely UT grads in Chicago or random coastal places, but they’d surely be interested in rapping about how much they hate (not Texas) and wish they could be in Texas.

When I was at ND, there were outsize opportunities for people who were 1 conservative and 2 in the top 10%. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s now more like top 30% with huge opportunities for #1-3, but 70% of folks aren’t in the top 30. I also bet ND gets more traction in a nominal market than UT because of anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

[ro566]

I’m an NDLS grad who worked in Texas. If you don’t want to work in Texas it would be weird to go to UT. There are surely UT grads in Chicago or random coastal places, but they’d surely be interested in rapping about how much they hate (not Texas) and wish they could be in Texas.

When I was at ND, there were outsize opportunities for people who were 1 conservative and 2 in the top 10%. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s now more like top 30% with huge opportunities for #1-3, but 70% of folks aren’t in the top 30. I also bet ND gets more traction in a nominal market than UT because of anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

Ok thanks. So I assume UT is the safer option for getting a job that can pay off debt than NDLS is? I am not opposed to ending up in TX if the opportunities are far better at UT than at NDLS. But the BL/FC rates for NDLS and UT seem to be fairly similar. However, I've heard you need to finish top third at NDLS for Big Law while being at median at UT is good enough for Big Law (and the median band is huge). Not sure how this squares with the BL/FC numbers being similar though.

[laanngo]

anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

Is that a sports thing?

[nixy]

anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

Is that a sports thing?

It’s a “Texas politics sucks” thing.

[laanngo]

anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

Is that a sports thing?

It’s a “Texas politics sucks” thing.

More than Florida, Oklahoma, or Utah? Or Massachusetts or California?

[nixy]

anti-Texas bias blinding folks to the fact that it’s a better law school.

Is that a sports thing?

It’s a “Texas politics sucks” thing.

More than Florida, Oklahoma, or Utah? Or Massachusetts or California?

Dude, come on.

[Wubbles]

Neither one of these are a good option for your goals. The fact that you want to be on a coast and not Texas makes me think whatever marginal leg up that ND has over its raw numbers is unlikely to be useful for you (guessing you aren't conservative). Neither place great in coastal biglaw.

[laanngo]

More than Florida, Oklahoma, or Utah? Or Massachusetts or California?

Dude, come on.

What? I don't get what you're saying

[trmckenz]

I am late to this party but feel particularly qualified to chime in because I attended both law schools. I did 1L at NDLS and transferred to UT for 2L and 3L. The two schools are similar in academic quality, though the setting / facilities / mystique / private aspect of NDLS makes it all feel a little more special. UT is a big public school with less handholding, but it's in Austin (awesome city for law students).

In terms of biglaw hiring, UT is way better. Every biglaw firm in TX wants to hire UT grads, and UT students can land jobs on either coast just fine. OCI is a way bigger experience at UT and pretty much all of the big firms show up. A lot of UT students are from TX and choose to stay in TX, but again, going to UT doesn't limit you to TX. There is no anti-Texas bias (whatever that even means) when it comes to law firm hiring.

The supply of biglaw opportunities at NDLS is far more limited. NDLS primarily feeds into Chicago, otherwise folks go back to where they're from. Its location in South Bend is the main problem -- it's a total pain for busy lawyers to get to South Bend, so not as many large firms make the trip to OCI or otherwise. NDLS has a great national brand, but realize it is attracting people from all over (who then return). It does not feed as many students to big firms as you'd think it could.

I don't know much about clerking. I know NDLS has stronger ties to conservative judges, but UT is a higher ranking school more generally. You can probably achieve your goals from either school if you get good grades, but note UT has a higher grading scale and gives out more A+s, which can help.

Good luck!!