Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State Forum

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jb11111

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Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by jb11111 » Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:25 pm

I have full rides for all (just tuition). Michigan is around rank 90, the other two around 50.

I have never lived in any of these areas, so no idea which I'd like, but leaning away from Penn State so I don't need a car. I'm from western US (but have not lived in the country for many years), and the only one people have heard of I know is Temple. My goal is to become a prosecutor.

The reason why I am considering Michigan even though it has worse rankings is only because I read there were lots of people with Scandinavian ancestry there, and my family came from Scandinavia relatively recently, which I think is cool.

I assume they are all fairly regional. What are your suggestions for a career in prosecution?

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by ALCA1920 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:23 pm

Hey congrats on the full tuition offers.

Outside the T20, rankings do not matter at all. Some schools like NDLS, UMN, and BU have historically good reputations that override their rankings. But when you look elsewhere, school ranks do not matter at all. You should target the flagship state school in the state where you'd like to work (at least for your first job out of law school). Think Ohio State in Ohio, or CU Boulder in Colorado, or U of Florida in Florida. These schools have great reputations in their localities and states, but their names don't mean much to employers outside of their regions. Think carefully about where you'd like to start your legal career. If it's Michigan, go to Michigan State. If you'd prefer to live and work in Pennsylvania, you can't go wrong with Temple (their employment outcomes and reputation are slightly better than Penn State's).

For a career in prosecution, or really anything that is not in biglaw/fed govt, all three schools are fine options. Take virtual tours of the schools. Think about where you'd want to live for the next three years. Picture yourself living and working in that same state after law school. Hope this helps!

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cavalier1138

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by cavalier1138 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:42 pm

As mentioned, any of these schools will set you up for a career in local prosecution. So it's really down to whether you want to be a prosecutor in Michigan or in Pennsylvania.

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by crazywafflez » Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:20 pm

Yup- I echo everything that has been said. Where do you want to live? Mich? Go to MSU. Philly? Temple. Rest of PA, P State (I think- I don't know the market as well). These schools are all peers and you'll be able to be a prosecutor in the area from any of them. Best of luck!

jb11111

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by jb11111 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:25 am

So even if I go a bit further up in the rankings, like Iowa (around 29), it makes no difference, because they are all regional?

as for Univ of Minn, if I get accepted, but don't get a very good scholarship, is it worth the cost versus a full ride?

Also, is regional only in-state? Let's say I meet a girl and she lives in Wisconsin or Minnesota and I move there, will it be much more difficult to find a job as a prosecutor out of state?

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cavalier1138

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:17 am

jb11111 wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:25 am
So even if I go a bit further up in the rankings, like Iowa (around 29), it makes no difference, because they are all regional?

as for Univ of Minn, if I get accepted, but don't get a very good scholarship, is it worth the cost versus a full ride?

Also, is regional only in-state? Let's say I meet a girl and she lives in Wisconsin or Minnesota and I move there, will it be much more difficult to find a job as a prosecutor out of state?
Yes, once you get outside the T13, schools become increasingly regional. So unless you want to work in Minnesota, there's no reason you should target the University of Minnesota.

As to your hypothetical: If you go to Temple and meet someone during law school, yes, it will be very difficult for you to get a job outside of Pennsylvania without preexisting ties to that area. If you meet someone after a few years of doing prosecution in Pennsylvania, then it may be easier for you to get a job in a different state, but bear in mind that you will need to get licensed in the new state.

That's why everyone is focusing on location. Local prosecution is very doable from the schools on your list. But you will have a limited geographic area where you can work immediately after graduation.

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by nixy » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:39 am

The biggest issue with moving out of state will be bar admission. If you meet the girl in Wisconsin or Minnesota after getting admitted in Michigan, you have to work out how to get barred in that state (I don’t know which of those are UBE states or have reciprocity or what, so it may not be much of a problem or it may be kind of a pain).

Otherwise, regional isn’t exclusively in-state - I think going to law school in Michigan could get you to Wisconsin or Minnesota - but it will get harder the further away your school is from your chosen market. Like it will be easier to take a Michigan State degree to the rest of the upper Midwest than to California or the Deep South, but it will still have the greatest currency in Michigan. And if you decide after a whirlwind romance spring break of 3L that you really want to be in MN rather than MI it will probably take more work to get the MN job than if you met the hypothetical girl 1L fall and worked in MN both summers of law school.

Look at where the grads from a given school end up working and working to get a sense of the strength of the school’s network in various locations. Something to keep in mind is that MN and WI both have a few law schools supplying what are relatively small legal markets.

I don’t think Iowa would make a material difference for a prosecutor. If you wanted to get upper midwest biglaw it might make a difference, but prosecutor jobs tend not to be that concerned with pedigree - a Michigan prosecutor job generally isn’t going to hire an Iowa grad over a Michigan State grad just based on the schools. The factors that matter are getting as much practical (ideally trial) experience as you can during school and ideally getting to know people in the office. An Iowa grad who interned in a Michigan prosecutor’s office both summers and did clinics and lots of relevant coursework is going to be a more attractive candidate than the Michigan State grad who pops up during 3L looking for a job without having done those things, but it won’t really be because Iowa is higher ranked.

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by crazywafflez » Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:23 pm

I once again echo everything that has been said. I'll also just say, as far as rankings are concerned, it is super regional. I'm in the south, and nobody knows that Iowa/Illinois/Minnesota etc are well ranked schools. The rankings from 20 onwards change so much year to year- I think at one point UNC was ranked 25 and another time around 50?
As the other posters have said, you'll be in that state for a bit, and yes, you can move to another state after practicing and be an ada there, but your degree's connections will be less valuable.

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by jb11111 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:30 pm

Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful.

I have one last question about the schools being overshadowed. For example, the Univ. of Minnesota or Univ of Wisconsin might be the best in those respective states, but if I went to Michigan State, it has horrible rankings compared to Univ. of Michigan. Does that play into getting local work?

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by Wubbles » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:32 pm

Michigan Law is not a major competitor for local Michigan jobs, I would primarily focus on the employment statistics available for Michigan State

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by nixy » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:15 pm

jb11111 wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:30 pm
Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful.

I have one last question about the schools being overshadowed. For example, the Univ. of Minnesota or Univ of Wisconsin might be the best in those respective states, but if I went to Michigan State, it has horrible rankings compared to Univ. of Michigan. Does that play into getting local work?
It can, although I think Wubbles is right about the competition wrt Michigan. The higher ranking matters for jobs that care about prestige (like biglaw/clerkships), but for jobs that don't, things like networking and internships and getting pertinent experience will be more important. Prosecution jobs aren't generally that concerned about prestige (though some individual offices or hiring people may care), but you have to do more than just get good grades.

Employment stats will show that higher-ranked schools tend to get more of their students into jobs than lower ranking schools. But the situation you're talking about is true for all the schools you're looking at.

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by CanadianWolf » Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:29 pm

Have you investigated the prosecutorial clinics offered at each law school ?

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Re: Full Rides: Michigan State, Temple, Penn State

Post by pkeller » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:48 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:29 pm
Have you investigated the prosecutorial clinics offered at each law school ?
There's never a guarantee you'll get into a certain clinic though--shouldn't be a deciding factor. Especially if the clinics are popular.

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