Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools Forum

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Inhousefuture

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Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by Inhousefuture » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:05 am

Hello, In terms of Socioeconomic Diversity how do the Non T6 T 14 law schools such as Duke and the Lower T 20 Law schools such as USC and UCLA compare?

For instance, among the Law school student body, what percent would you say are working class, middle class, upper middle class, high net worth wealthy families etc?

Does Socioeconomic status matter the way it definitely does in many undergrad contexts? Does it have a subtle effect on firm interviewing? I have heard that does matter in a subtle way in some elite firms?

Thanks

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:40 pm

You really should define what you mean by
working class, middle class, upper middle class, high net worth wealthy families etc
and
Socioeconomic status matter[ing] the way it definitely does in many undergrad contexts
in order to have a useful discussion. All of the T20 are pretty similar in this regard, though.
Does it have a subtle effect on firm interviewing? I have heard that does matter in a subtle way in some elite firms?
Of course it matters. Law firms are stacked with UMC-and-up people (truly wealthy people don't need to work that hard). But they're hardly impenetrable to people who grew up on a farm in Iowa so long as farmboy went to a T14 and got good grades.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:11 am

I don't think this has much to do with law school. It's more of an abstract question about hiring practices in "elite" fields that were previously cut off from pretty much anyone who wasn't white and came from money.

The "subtle effect" of socioeconomic status you're talking about is the same one you'll see anywhere. If interviewers from moneyed backgrounds aren't getting bias training, then they're going to have a "good feeling" about the applicant who talked to them for 30 minutes about lacrosse and traveling to the Caribbean for Spring Break. And they're going to feel ambivalent about the applicant who couldn't discuss skiing in the Alps and had to work their way through college. There is no law school (or profession) where this doesn't happen to some degree.

crazywafflez

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by crazywafflez » Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:52 am

Yeah, agreed with the above posters. I'll just add, that I know nothing about the student makeups of those schools- I can only speak to my specific school (T1 private regional school)- and even that will be anecdotal at best. Vast majority were from the upper-middle class or middle class. We had a couple of folks from actual wealth, but very few (I can only think of 2 in my cohort, but I didn't know everyone that well); and we had a couple working class people (strikingly, again, only knew of 2, hah). The vast majority were kids of doctors, nurses, lawyers, farmers, engineers, and tons of misc middle class jobs or professional class jobs.
As the other posters mentioned, I'm sure there is unconscious bias towards folks who may have similar upbringings (oh, y'all went to Destin for your high school trip too? Dang, Gatlinburg is such a tourist trap now but loved it as a kid), but it isn't exactly barred for folks from different backgrounds- a number of the attorneys at my firm hail from a variety of backgrounds- however, I can say that I am shocked with the amount of dang Alabama, Cowboys, Saints, and Ohio fans at my firm... we aren't even in any of those states...

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nealric

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by nealric » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:30 pm

Inhousefuture wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:05 am
Hello, In terms of Socioeconomic Diversity how do the Non T6 T 14 law schools such as Duke and the Lower T 20 Law schools such as USC and UCLA compare?

For instance, among the Law school student body, what percent would you say are working class, middle class, upper middle class, high net worth wealthy families etc?

Does Socioeconomic status matter the way it definitely does in many undergrad contexts? Does it have a subtle effect on firm interviewing? I have heard that does matter in a subtle way in some elite firms?

Thanks
Law isn't exempt from class bias that is present in other professions. David Brooks just published an article in the Atlantic about the current state of class in the U.S. which has some good observations about class mannerisms today.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ss/619492/

My (totally anecdotal) impression from my T14 was that fewer than 20% were from what I would classify as working class or poor backgrounds. A decent chunk were middle-middle class (kids of schoolteachers and the like), but the bulk were from upper middle class backgrounds and had parents who were also professionals of some sort (doctors/lawyers/engineers/accountants). I'm sure there were a few who were from ultra high net worth families, but it wasn't the sort of thing that one advertises. I would say that ultra high net worth types tend not to end up in biglaw, or if they do they don't stay for long. I don't see how someone with a trust fund waiting for them has much motivation to grind the hours out in biglaw.

I don't think being outside the familiar professional class background will necessarily hurt you in interviewing or job hunting, but it can in subtle ways. When interviewers who aren't actively trying to fight unconscious bias screen for, "fit" they tend to look at candidates who seem like them. Things like regional accents or clothes that aren't quite standard can distance an interviewer from the candidate. I'm talking things like a Southern drawl or square toed-shoes. When hired, someone from a working class background may need to overcome lower expectations of work products formed based on things like accents.

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Wild Card

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by Wild Card » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:59 pm

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... aw_schools

"More than three quarters of the students at the nation’s top 20 law schools come from the top one-fourth of the socioeconomic population, and well over half of the students at these schools come from the top 10 percent, according to the study by UCLA law professor Richard Sander. Just 2 percent come from the bottom quarter."

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HillandHollow

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Re: Socioeconomics of T 14 and T 20 Law schools

Post by HillandHollow » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:36 pm

I went to Chicago, and I'm from a lower middle class working family (my parents' incomes combined did not break six figures). The socioeconomic consideration is a real concern, but not a major one. It CAN affect your interviews and hireability, but dependent entirely on who is interviewing you. Being able to talk about things like sailing--and particularly to be able to list it as an interest on your resume--might be the difference maker in getting a callback (among a thousand other things that also could be difference makers) if you are being reviewed by sailing enthusiasts. A friend who does OCI interviews explained it as "are you one of us?"

While IN law school, the dynamic manifests itself in the most obvious way: how you spend your time outside of class. Well-moneyed classmates took ubers aplenty to restaurants on the northside, without concern for the bill. Others of us could not afford to do so, and had to eat at home, missing out on potential friendly networking and social scenarios.

These are minor things though, not life or death and not make or break issues. People from lower class backgrounds routinely succeed, and people from upper class backgrounds routinely strike out. It isn't EVERYTHING, but it is SOMETHING. It also isn't unique to law school. If you're from a background like mine, you already know what this feels like to be surrounded by people who have means that you simply do not have. Just expect more of that. But get good grades, be involved in the community, and pursue your goals anyway.

Caveat: you were asking about T6-14, and I am talking about Chicago. It is possible that the effect of this dynamic is more dramatic at Chicago where a fair number of my classmates came from some serious money, but I don't really know.

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