Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia) Forum

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tovia7

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Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by tovia7 » Mon May 10, 2021 12:39 pm

Northwestern (115k COA) vs Columbia (235k COA)

^These figures don't take into account tuition increases and interest, so C would end up being close to 300k, which is why I went with NU. Goals are BigLaw (preferably in SoCal, where I'm from) then in-house.

Deposited at NU but I'm already regretting it (second-guessing is a persistent problem with me). Considering asking Columbia if they still have a spot for me, which is I know is a super long shot.

Went to HYS undergrad and hate that I've internalized the thirst for prestige, but as stupid as it is, I can't shake this feeling that I "downgraded" and that employers/friends/family/everyone I meet for the rest of my career and life will see it as such. My entire family was telling me to go with C and that the 120k difference seems like a lot now but that spread out over 10 years the extra 12k+interest a year is worth it. At the same time though, they won't be the ones working a few extra years of crazy hours in a Big Law job they hate to pay off that difference. All of this is probably moot anyway bc C wouldn't give me my spot/scholly back now anyway but this shit is just weighing so heavily on my mind right now

purplegoldtornado

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by purplegoldtornado » Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm

Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terrible feeling.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terribleunfounded feeling influenced entirely by factors that have nothing to do with your legal career.
Fixed that for you.

And the OP already made their decision, which was the correct one. Columbia is not worth $120k over Northwestern for the overwhelming majority of legal careers.

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by crazywafflez » Mon May 10, 2021 1:03 pm

tovia7 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:39 pm
Northwestern (115k COA) vs Columbia (235k COA)

^These figures don't take into account tuition increases and interest, so C would end up being close to 300k, which is why I went with NU. Goals are BigLaw (preferably in SoCal, where I'm from) then in-house.

Deposited at NU but I'm already regretting it (second-guessing is a persistent problem with me). Considering asking Columbia if they still have a spot for me, which is I know is a super long shot.

Went to HYS undergrad and hate that I've internalized the thirst for prestige, but as stupid as it is, I can't shake this feeling that I "downgraded" and that employers/friends/family/everyone I meet for the rest of my career and life will see it as such. My entire family was telling me to go with C and that the 120k difference seems like a lot now but that spread out over 10 years the extra 12k+interest a year is worth it. At the same time though, they won't be the ones working a few extra years of crazy hours in a Big Law job they hate to pay off that difference. All of this is probably moot anyway bc C wouldn't give me my spot/scholly back now anyway but this shit is just weighing so heavily on my mind right now
Maybe I'm the dumb one here, but I chose the T1 on scholly and have no regrets. I was not looking at a school like C, was more so looking at like the lower T14 and T20s.
But that is a big coa difference (especially when comparing cost of living in NYC vs. Chi), and NW is a very respectable school. It isn't quite as flashy as HYSCCN- but then again, in lay prestige U of Chi and NYU aren't either. I wouldn't worry one bit. NW for cheap is a fantastic outcome, and I would've made the same choice as you had I been given the options. You'll have pretty close to the same results from NW as you would from C, for a fraction of the cost.
It hurts for 1 second, maybe, to make that choice- I went to a golden triangle uni and then to a T1 law in middle America (where I'm from)- I felt bad for 5 minutes, nobody else cared or said anything. It isn't like you went to Princeton UG and now you're going to Elon law (no offense to Elon, just tossing one out there).
You'll be going from Yale or Brown, whatever, to NW, don't sweat it. Plenty of folks go to Cornell UG and then Emory or WashU law- plenty of ole miss UGs go to Vandy, Cornell or UVA- all for a variety of reasons.
Again, it isn't like you were picking C vs. Elon, this is C vs. NW- both fantastic schools. If it kills you so much go for it, email C, but I think you made the right call originally. You could do worse than graduating with 300k debt from C, but graduating from NW with 150k is a heck of a lot better. C isn't worth 100k+ over NW.

purplegoldtornado

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by purplegoldtornado » Mon May 10, 2021 1:04 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terribleunfounded feeling influenced entirely by factors that have nothing to do with your legal career.
Fixed that for you.

And the OP already made their decision, which was the correct one. Columbia is not worth $120k over Northwestern for the overwhelming majority of legal careers.
That doesn’t mean that the regret won’t be there. You might be able to break down the numbers and say that one or the other is a better economic decision, but you can’t put a price on your happiness. Yeah, it’s naive to feel bad about turning down a prestigious school—I get it. But that’s what’s important to me, and it seems that’s what’s important to OP too.

But I do hope I’m wrong in several years and agree with you. I’m inclined to say I probably will.

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redanon20

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by redanon20 » Mon May 10, 2021 1:21 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terrible feeling.
Every decision between a lower ranked school at a larger discount and a higher ranked school is not equal, and looking at your profile I wonder if you truly made a "similar" decision. It looks like you characterize your initial law school as "T2". If your decision was between a T2 and perhaps a T14 at sticker, then there is a tangible difference not only in prestige but also in employment opportunities.

In OP's situation, the gap between NU and Columbia in terms of employment opportunities is extremely narrow, and so the only thing "lost" is lay prestige.

IMO you made the right call OP, congrats!

purplegoldtornado

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by purplegoldtornado » Mon May 10, 2021 1:23 pm

redanon20 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:21 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terrible feeling.
Every decision between a lower ranked school at a larger discount and a higher ranked school is not equal, and looking at your profile I wonder if you truly made a "similar" decision. It looks like you characterize your initial law school as "T2". If your decision was between a T2 and perhaps a T14 at sticker, then there is a tangible difference not only in prestige but also in employment opportunities.

In OP's situation, the gap between NU and Columbia in terms of employment opportunities is extremely narrow, and so the only thing "lost" is lay prestige.

IMO you made the right call OP, congrats!
I was referring to my transfer decision. Not entirely the same decision but same sentiment.

redanon20

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by redanon20 » Mon May 10, 2021 1:30 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:23 pm
redanon20 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:21 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terrible feeling.
Every decision between a lower ranked school at a larger discount and a higher ranked school is not equal, and looking at your profile I wonder if you truly made a "similar" decision. It looks like you characterize your initial law school as "T2". If your decision was between a T2 and perhaps a T14 at sticker, then there is a tangible difference not only in prestige but also in employment opportunities.

In OP's situation, the gap between NU and Columbia in terms of employment opportunities is extremely narrow, and so the only thing "lost" is lay prestige.

IMO you made the right call OP, congrats!
I was referring to my transfer decision. Not entirely the same decision but same sentiment.
Gotcha, my mistake.

nixy

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by nixy » Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm

There's a difference between a T2 and Northwestern, though. (No disrespect to the T2, I didn't go anywhere fancy for law school. But to the extent people do care about prestige, the prestige difference btw Columbia and NU is much much less than between T2 and T14.)

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purplegoldtornado

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by purplegoldtornado » Mon May 10, 2021 1:32 pm

redanon20 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:30 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:23 pm
redanon20 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:21 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
Definitely try for Columbia. I made a decision similar to yours, and for the same reason, I’ve regretted it ever since! It’s a terrible feeling.
Every decision between a lower ranked school at a larger discount and a higher ranked school is not equal, and looking at your profile I wonder if you truly made a "similar" decision. It looks like you characterize your initial law school as "T2". If your decision was between a T2 and perhaps a T14 at sticker, then there is a tangible difference not only in prestige but also in employment opportunities.

In OP's situation, the gap between NU and Columbia in terms of employment opportunities is extremely narrow, and so the only thing "lost" is lay prestige.

IMO you made the right call OP, congrats!
I was referring to my transfer decision. Not entirely the same decision but same sentiment.
Gotcha, my mistake.
You're good! You do raise a good point about the differences in our situations. (T2 v. T10) and (T14 v. T6).

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cavalier1138

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 10, 2021 1:57 pm

purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:32 pm
You do raise a good point about the differences in our situations. (T2 v. T10) and (T14 v. T6).
Yeah, that is a radically different situation from what the OP is considering. Like not even remotely in the same ballpark.

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by lavarman84 » Mon May 10, 2021 2:32 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:57 pm
purplegoldtornado wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:32 pm
You do raise a good point about the differences in our situations. (T2 v. T10) and (T14 v. T6).
Yeah, that is a radically different situation from what the OP is considering. Like not even remotely in the same ballpark.
Yeah, I didn't think Northwestern offered scholarships to transfers, so I wouldn't imagine there would be nearly the COA difference. FWIW, OP, I think you made the right call. Having a ton of debt hanging over your head isn't fun. I am very happy to be in a spot in my career where I have no debt and can do whatever I want.

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon May 10, 2021 4:12 pm

I agree with cavalier 1138 that Columbia law school is not worth the difference of an additional $120,000 debt plus interest over Northwestern School of Law.

Law School Transparency dot com shows that the median starting salary for Columbia is $185,800 with almost 77% of grads going to national law firms. About 71% to New York, almost 10% to California, and about 7.5% to Wash DC.

Northwestern law grads' median starting salary is over $176,000 with over 67% going to national law firms. Slightly over 50% accept positions in Illinois, almost 20% in New York, and about 9% in California.

Northwestern places about 6% of grads in federal clerkships, while Columbia places about 5% in federal clerkships according to data compiled by law school transparency dot com.

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tovia7

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by tovia7 » Mon May 10, 2021 7:35 pm

OP here - thank you for the comments, everyone! Still tough to let go of Columbia ofc but I feel more reassured that I made the right decision and am looking forward to financial freedom

acr

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by acr » Thu May 13, 2021 11:51 pm

Lol @ having the perspective that Northwestern Law at a significant discount isn’t good enough because of the potential “perception” of peers :roll:

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Wild Card

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by Wild Card » Sun May 16, 2021 7:05 pm

I have a few friends who went to HYP for college and then ended up at Columbia and described the experience as relatively TTT -- in terms of quality of instruction and facilities.

Everything about it just feels TTT and scammy compared to how incredible the experience can be if one goes to a really good college.

The way I've come to see it, you're rightfully screwed if you don't get into YHS for law school. Those schools admit close to 1,000 students alone, and our profession is so oversaturated that if you can't even make that cut, you should probably reconsider your calling. Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but it's very funny to remember that CCN alone pump out another 1,000+ lawyers every year ....

NU is good enough, and you should have good outcomes if you get good grades and form strong relationships with the profs there.

Also, it is extremely hard to pay off $300K without family assistance, if it's any consolation to you. Bottom line, Northwestern for $115,000 is not bad.

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by redanon20 » Mon May 17, 2021 12:07 am

Wild Card wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:05 pm
college.

The way I've come to see it, you're rightfully screwed if you don't get into YHS for law school. Those schools admit close to 1,000 students alone, and our profession is so oversaturated that if you can't even make that cut, you should probably reconsider your calling.
What is the definition of “screwed” here? What is the minimum level of success (a level that is only attainable out of HYS) that you consider not being “screwed” after law school?

You ended by saying the OPs option is fine, so I don’t think that squares well with the above but still just curious.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 am

Wild Card wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 7:05 pm
NU is good enougha great school, and you should have good outcomes if you get good gradesperform at median or better and form strong relationships with the profs therecome across as a halfway normal person in interviews.
Fixed that for you.

The "I have a massive inferiority complex" schtick is only funny when you keep it focused on yourself. Stop preying on anxious 0Ls.

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nealric

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by nealric » Mon May 17, 2021 2:50 pm

I think the differences between the two schools as much a location play as anything else. Would you prefer to end up in the Midwest or East Coast?

People focus on COA, but $100k isn't that material over the course of a full legal career. I'm not suggesting it's not a lot of money, but to say that what you do with your degree matters a lot more to your ultimate financial wellbeing than how much you paid for your degree.

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Re: Did I make the wrong decision (NU vs Columbia)

Post by CovidLurker » Tue May 25, 2021 5:22 pm

I choose NU for money reasons over better ranked schools and still ended up V5 NYC. If you're a transactional lawyer, it really doesn't matter. Go to the T14 that gives you the most money. I graduated with 70K in debt and I know plenty of colleagues that went to a T6 and have $300k in debt. My lifestyle is 1000x better than theirs. Also, once you get into your firm, everyone judges you by your firm not your law school. I generally don't even know where ppl went to law school.

I'll admit, I'm still starstruck by Yale/Stanford. But, Columbia/UChicago/NYU really mean nothing to anyone once you're here.

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