Top Law Schools

I have similar scholarships at both schools. Loyola's ranking has been trending downwards the last few years (#72 now) while Pepperdine's has held solidly at #46. Employment numbers are similar. Does anyone have any insight on if rankings will influence employment in the coming years or if firms currently prefer one school over the other? Any advice is much appreciated, thank you!!

What are your career goals, and what is your total cost of attendance at each school?

Rankings "trends" are generally meaningless, and except for last year's class, the two schools have generally been equivalent in terms of job placement. I highly doubt that firms in LA have a strong preference between the two, but if you were referring to large firms, then neither of these schools will get you there.

These are peer regional schools, and actually Loyola has slightly better employment outcomes for 2020 grads (see Law School Transparency to compare stats). Assuming you want to practice in LA and you have a realistic idea of the legal jobs available to you, I think you can consider the relatively small things like location, clinical programs and other offerings, and overall subjective preference.

Rankings don't matter whatsoever at this level and both schools are considered peers in LA. That said, Loyola has a much bigger alumni network and is physically located downtown closer to courts and more firms (which helps if you are doing externships and classes in the same day).

Ultimately, I would go to whichever one gives you the most money (preferably near full-ride).

Assuming that COA is similar, Loyola Marymount is the better option for one who prefers to stay in California or for those with an interest in tax law.

These schools are treated identically at basically all big LA firms. One thing I will mention is that you should make sure these scholarship offers are not tied to maintaining any sort of class rank or GPA. If one of them is, then pick the other school.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Tue May 11, 2021 10:37 am

Assuming that COA is similar, Loyola Marymount is the better option for one who prefers to stay in California or for those with an interest in tax law.

I know I'm going to regret asking, but where did you get this impression?

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 6:29 am

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Tue May 11, 2021 10:37 am

Assuming that COA is similar, Loyola Marymount is the better option for one who prefers to stay in California or for those with an interest in tax law.

I know I'm going to regret asking, but where did you get this impression?

I can speculate on where this impression comes from. Loyola has a tax LLM program that allows you to graduate in the normal 3 year time frame with both a JD and tax LLM. As for why LLS is better in CA... my only guess is they have a much greater number of alumni out there (larger class size and been around longer) so you're statistically more likely to be interviewing with a Partner who was a Loyola grad than a Pepperdine grad, to the extent that even makes a difference.

Loyola Marymount offers an accelerated JD/LLM (taxation) degree. (The Loyola LLM tax program is solid.)

https://www.lls.edu/admissions/degreepr ... ms/taxllm/

Loyola grads tend to stay in California in a greater number & in a greater percentage than do Pepperdine law grads.

lawschooltransparency dot com is a resource to check for geographic placement of law school grads.

Pepperdine graduated 138. 78.2% placed in California.

Loyola Marymount graduated 331 with 95.8% placed in California.

P.S. I agree with the above poster (ESQ92) who speculated about the basis for my assertions.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 am

Pepperdine graduated 138. 78.2% placed in California.

Loyola Marymount graduated 331 with 95.8% placed in California.

A 15% difference in in-state placement strongly suggests self-selection to me. The fact that Pepperdine students seem to have more mobility with their degrees would actually argue in favor of Pepperdine being the stronger school in general (but again, they're equivalently mediocre options).

And I know you grossly overvalue LLMs in general, but since the OP didn't indicate an interest in tax, it's a moot point.

I do not know how to respond to your assertion that I "grossly overvalue LLMs in general" outside of a specific context.

OP made a broadly worded inquiry to which I replied with information that may or may not match OP's current & future interests (many do not think about practicing a specific area of law until exposed to coursework in that area during law school).

You appear to view posting as a contest between right & wrong answers, while I view it as the sharing of information in order to assist OP in making an informed decision.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Thu May 13, 2021 2:01 pm

I do not know how to respond to your assertion that I "grossly overvalue LLMs in general" outside of a specific context.

I mean that you routinely mention non-tax LLM programs (and in this case, a tax LLM program at a non-NYU/Georgetown/UF school) as things for applicants to consider. Which ties back to this general point...

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Thu May 13, 2021 2:01 pm

You appear to view posting as a contest between right & wrong answers, while I view it as the sharing of information in order to assist OP in making an informed decision.

Debate is healthy. But more importantly, you seem to view "sharing of information" as a neutral act, which is categorically untrue. Information can look like this: "School X is higher-cost, but it has better biglaw placement, a business law journal, a great mock trial team, and a swimming pool." In that case, all I'm doing is sharing information, right? But if I share that information in response to an OP asking about whether they should attend School X, I'm now implying that all those factors should be considered in their decision.

I'll also note that you didn't "share information" about the schools. You made a value judgment that Loyola was better for applicants who wanted to stay in California and/or pursue tax law. And you may feel that value judgment is justified. Other people interpret the data differently, and a healthy forum should have pushback when opinions are offered.

Unclear as to whether your post is sincere or just trying to stir up unnecessary bickering. Under the assumption that you are being sincere, then hopefully we can agree to disagree with respect to our differences in this thread.

I suspect that the OP can use the resources & opinions provided to help evaluate his/her situation.

And, yes, I do occasionally refer posters to non-tax llm programs. Typically it is to illustrate the type of courses & knowledge expected for certain specialty practices. LLM courses are often available to regular JD students so for one curious about IP law, courses offered by an IP LLM program can be helpful.

Again, I believe in sharing--not restricting--information available to posters who make inquiries. Opinions are nice, but....

Canadian Wolf is wrong and unhelpful.

OP, what are your goals? What options do you want open to you? Based on your OP and apparent serious consideration of rankings it looks like you may not have a good sense of legal employment.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 am

Loyola Marymount offers an accelerated JD/LLM (taxation) degree. (The Loyola LLM tax program is solid.)

https://www.lls.edu/admissions/degreepr ... ms/taxllm/

Loyola grads tend to stay in California in a greater number & in a greater percentage than do Pepperdine law grads.

lawschooltransparency dot com is a resource to check for geographic placement of law school grads.

Pepperdine graduated 138. 78.2% placed in California.

Loyola Marymount graduated 331 with 95.8% placed in California.

P.S. I agree with the above poster (ESQ92) who speculated about the basis for my assertions.

LOL How is this information for OP "wrong and unhelpful" ?

ESQ92 wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 1:32 pm

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 6:29 am

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Tue May 11, 2021 10:37 am

Assuming that COA is similar, Loyola Marymount is the better option for one who prefers to stay in California or for those with an interest in tax law.

I know I'm going to regret asking, but where did you get this impression?

I can speculate on where this impression comes from. Loyola has a tax LLM program that allows you to graduate in the normal 3 year time frame with both a JD and tax LLM. As for why LLS is better in CA... my only guess is they have a much greater number of alumni out there (larger class size and been around longer) so you're statistically more likely to be interviewing with a Partner who was a Loyola grad than a Pepperdine grad, to the extent that even makes a difference.

@ESQ92: You are correct.