UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R. Forum

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JamezPhoenix

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by JamezPhoenix » Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:20 am

Best decision is to get off the waitlist at Notre Dame. Be sure to submit a VERY convincing LOCI in early April, stay in contact with admissions director, and do any virtual events you can.

IMO, failing that, UIUC seems like the best decision given that it is in your preferred market. I can't imagine BC is very portable in the mid-west. Yes BC has very good biglaw numbers, but that's almost exclusively boston Biglaw. Do you want to spend the next five years of your life in Boston and give up whatever midwest connections you may have?

I am also in my 30's, which is why I didn't retake, so I understand, but I also scored right where I had been PTing.

Honestly, you have pretty decent options regardless so don't stress on it too much. One school offers you connections in your market, another offers a 50/50 shot at BigLaw.

WhatIsLaw69

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:56 am

I never expected this to gain as much traction as it did. You guys basically had the same arguments I was having in my head. I'm probably less certain now than I was before, but I appreciate all the advice.

objctnyrhnr

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by objctnyrhnr » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:19 am

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:56 am
I never expected this to gain as much traction as it did. You guys basically had the same arguments I was having in my head. I'm probably less certain now than I was before, but I appreciate all the advice.
My additional concern on your behalf is the uncertainty. As you know, your gpa is poor and your Lsat is solid but not great. Seems like you applied early in the cycle and (with respect to BC) landed a scholly and an acceptance that you might not have gotten if BC had recognized the increased applicant strength they and all schools were gonna get this year. So the concern is that this will be factored in from the outset next year at these schools’ admissions offices.

Also seems like a lot of people are pretending you have a 170+ Lsat which you do not have. (Fwiw I was testing consistently at 178-180 and I barely broke 170. Took it again figuring my potential was higher and got the same score.)

My question is this: wouldn’t it be possible to put down a deposit (or even two) at spots you’re in and also retake? Fwiw that’s what I did.

If you improve substantially, you can use it to get off waitlists if not just entirely reapply next year with better numbers (despite the likely heightened admissions standards), or maybe you could increase scholly where you’re already in due to new score.

If you don’t improve, say, two or more points, then it probably becomes a “go to BC or don’t go to LS” situation. As you know from my earlier posts, due to favorable hiring outlook I’d take BC with a 50% or more scholly right now...but I might not have said the same thing a year ago.

Anyway, why not just do that and get the certainty of knowing your Lsat will in fact improve?

WhatIsLaw69

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:10 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:19 am
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:56 am
I never expected this to gain as much traction as it did. You guys basically had the same arguments I was having in my head. I'm probably less certain now than I was before, but I appreciate all the advice.
My additional concern on your behalf is the uncertainty. As you know, your gpa is poor and your Lsat is solid but not great. Seems like you applied early in the cycle and (with respect to BC) landed a scholly and an acceptance that you might not have gotten if BC had recognized the increased applicant strength they and all schools were gonna get this year. So the concern is that this will be factored in from the outset next year at these schools’ admissions offices.

Also seems like a lot of people are pretending you have a 170+ Lsat which you do not have. (Fwiw I was testing consistently at 178-180 and I barely broke 170. Took it again figuring my potential was higher and got the same score.)

My question is this: wouldn’t it be possible to put down a deposit (or even two) at spots you’re in and also retake? Fwiw that’s what I did.

If you improve substantially, you can use it to get off waitlists if not just entirely reapply next year with better numbers (despite the likely heightened admissions standards), or maybe you could increase scholly where you’re already in due to new score.

If you don’t improve, say, two or more points, then it probably becomes a “go to BC or don’t go to LS” situation. As you know from my earlier posts, due to favorable hiring outlook I’d take BC with a 50% or more scholly right now...but I might not have said the same thing a year ago.

Anyway, why not just do that and get the certainty of knowing your Lsat will in fact improve?
This was actually the plan until very recently, it makes the most sense. I was going to deposit and retake in June, but due to new operational commitments I will not be able to sit for the June test. That makes August the earliest, with scores released after the start of the semester. Once I figured out I couldn't take in June, I made the thread looking for advice. Kind of a bummer because I feel like I haven't been able to really dedicate myself to the test, but I guess my situation overall is a good problem to have.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by objctnyrhnr » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:20 am

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:10 am
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:19 am
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:56 am
I never expected this to gain as much traction as it did. You guys basically had the same arguments I was having in my head. I'm probably less certain now than I was before, but I appreciate all the advice.
My additional concern on your behalf is the uncertainty. As you know, your gpa is poor and your Lsat is solid but not great. Seems like you applied early in the cycle and (with respect to BC) landed a scholly and an acceptance that you might not have gotten if BC had recognized the increased applicant strength they and all schools were gonna get this year. So the concern is that this will be factored in from the outset next year at these schools’ admissions offices.

Also seems like a lot of people are pretending you have a 170+ Lsat which you do not have. (Fwiw I was testing consistently at 178-180 and I barely broke 170. Took it again figuring my potential was higher and got the same score.)

My question is this: wouldn’t it be possible to put down a deposit (or even two) at spots you’re in and also retake? Fwiw that’s what I did.

If you improve substantially, you can use it to get off waitlists if not just entirely reapply next year with better numbers (despite the likely heightened admissions standards), or maybe you could increase scholly where you’re already in due to new score.

If you don’t improve, say, two or more points, then it probably becomes a “go to BC or don’t go to LS” situation. As you know from my earlier posts, due to favorable hiring outlook I’d take BC with a 50% or more scholly right now...but I might not have said the same thing a year ago.

Anyway, why not just do that and get the certainty of knowing your Lsat will in fact improve?
This was actually the plan until very recently, it makes the most sense. I was going to deposit and retake in June, but due to new operational commitments I will not be able to sit for the June test. That makes August the earliest, with scores released after the start of the semester. Once I figured out I couldn't take in June, I made the thread looking for advice. Kind of a bummer because I feel like I haven't been able to really dedicate myself to the test, but I guess my situation overall is a good problem to have.
Not ideal but doesn’t screw the plan, right? Can you still sit for august? When do you get august scores relative to when classes will begin/tuition will be due?

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WhatIsLaw69

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:31 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:20 am
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:10 am
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:19 am
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:56 am
I never expected this to gain as much traction as it did. You guys basically had the same arguments I was having in my head. I'm probably less certain now than I was before, but I appreciate all the advice.
My additional concern on your behalf is the uncertainty. As you know, your gpa is poor and your Lsat is solid but not great. Seems like you applied early in the cycle and (with respect to BC) landed a scholly and an acceptance that you might not have gotten if BC had recognized the increased applicant strength they and all schools were gonna get this year. So the concern is that this will be factored in from the outset next year at these schools’ admissions offices.

Also seems like a lot of people are pretending you have a 170+ Lsat which you do not have. (Fwiw I was testing consistently at 178-180 and I barely broke 170. Took it again figuring my potential was higher and got the same score.)

My question is this: wouldn’t it be possible to put down a deposit (or even two) at spots you’re in and also retake? Fwiw that’s what I did.

If you improve substantially, you can use it to get off waitlists if not just entirely reapply next year with better numbers (despite the likely heightened admissions standards), or maybe you could increase scholly where you’re already in due to new score.

If you don’t improve, say, two or more points, then it probably becomes a “go to BC or don’t go to LS” situation. As you know from my earlier posts, due to favorable hiring outlook I’d take BC with a 50% or more scholly right now...but I might not have said the same thing a year ago.

Anyway, why not just do that and get the certainty of knowing your Lsat will in fact improve?
This was actually the plan until very recently, it makes the most sense. I was going to deposit and retake in June, but due to new operational commitments I will not be able to sit for the June test. That makes August the earliest, with scores released after the start of the semester. Once I figured out I couldn't take in June, I made the thread looking for advice. Kind of a bummer because I feel like I haven't been able to really dedicate myself to the test, but I guess my situation overall is a good problem to have.
Not ideal but doesn’t screw the plan, right? Can you still sit for august? When do you get august scores relative to when classes will begin/tuition will be due?

No hard date on release yet, but following the trend of two-three weeks after the take, it would be after the first week of classes.

Scholarship award came in. I'm looking at under $10k/yr tuition.

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Dcc617

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by Dcc617 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:36 pm

So people are arguing different things here. Nobody is saying that you can’t have a successful legal career out of BC. The issue is that you’ve articulated that you want biglaw, and that you want it in the Midwest. Both are uphill endeavors out of BC. You can’t count on getting good grades in 1L. There is too much left to chance.

So if you are okay with median outcome at BC, then fine. If you’re not, then you’re risking 3 years and a good amount of debt for a likely disappointing outcome.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by objctnyrhnr » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:10 am

Dcc617 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:36 pm
So people are arguing different things here. Nobody is saying that you can’t have a successful legal career out of BC. The issue is that you’ve articulated that you want biglaw, and that you want it in the Midwest. Both are uphill endeavors out of BC. You can’t count on getting good grades in 1L. There is too much left to chance.

So if you are okay with median outcome at BC, then fine. If you’re not, then you’re risking 3 years and a good amount of debt for a likely disappointing outcome.
Yeah I agree that BC to Midwest is a bit of an uphill battle. Certainly can be done, but there’s no doubt that BC is not the ideal school for what I’m picturing is a tough market to break into. But you also said in the OP that you’d be cool with boston. Also if you end up in a big enough firm, it’ll probably have an office out there you can get into after a couple years.

Ultimately, 10k a year tuition at a powerful regional school in a sizable market (see eg BC BU Fordham, maybe even GW) when it’s looking like big law hiring is going to continue to increase is not a bad place. For what it’s worth, it’s what I did (scared of debt) and I landed a fedclerkship and am now in biglaw.

Would it be better to be at a t13 because you’re supposed to assume median and t13 medians pretty routinely get biglaw? Yeah. But you don’t have t13 numbers or a t13 offer, and there’s reason to believe you might not even have what you do now next year with the same numbers. (FWIW I had lower t10/t14 at sticker numbers and still chose something generally similar to what you’re looking at.)

So maybe the question is whether to go go BC or risk not going to LS at all if your numbers don’t improve?

Objectively speaking, I think that powerful t30 in a region with a legitimately sized biglaw presence with very low COA is a very fine outcome. In my view, you’ll end up fine unless 1) the Econ tanks at the wrong time, or 2) you screw up law schools. The poster above might say that’s too optimistic, but it’s my experience-based opinion.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by CalF123 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:40 pm

Frankly, I think the OP has done very well to get into somewhere like BC. BC have rejected lots of applicants with better numbers this year.

Clearly T14 offers substantially safer placement, but that’s not relevant at all to someone who has no T14 offers and is imo highly unlikely to get any next cycle.

There is a very real risk of the OP striking out at places like BC if they gamble on a better offer next year, never mind getting a T14 place.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:14 pm

CalF123 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:40 pm
BC have rejected lots of applicants with better numbers this year.
I wasn't going to address it before, but this is now several times you've posted this line. Unless you have access to data I don't, the numbers don't really back you up.

See here: https://www.lawschooldata.org/school/Bo ... College/18

Waitlists? Sure. "Lots" of rejections? Not seeing it.

Edit: In fact, looking more closely, there are more admits clustered in my stated range than rejections. Extrapolate that out to figure for the self-reported nature of LSD, and I don't think "lots" of candidates with better numbers are being rejected.
Last edited by WhatIsLaw69 on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:17 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:10 am
So maybe the question is whether to go go BC or risk not going to LS at all if your numbers don’t improve?
Yeah, I'm realizing I never mentioned this, but I think it's highly unlikely I reapply if I don't get the increase I need. I think we're on the same page.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by Dcc617 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:18 pm

CalF123 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:40 pm
Frankly, I think the OP has done very well to get into somewhere like BC. BC have rejected lots of applicants with better numbers this year.

Clearly T14 offers substantially safer placement, but that’s not relevant at all to someone who has no T14 offers and is imo highly unlikely to get any next cycle.

There is a very real risk of the OP striking out at places like BC if they gamble on a better offer next year, never mind getting a T14 place.
Yes, but OP also does not have to go to law school. If it doesn't look like their goals are realistic with the options they end up with, then they can just not go.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by CalF123 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:27 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:14 pm
CalF123 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:40 pm
BC have rejected lots of applicants with better numbers this year.
I wasn't going to address it before, but this is now several times you've posted this line. Unless you have access to data I don't, the numbers don't really back you up.

See here: https://www.lawschooldata.org/school/Bo ... College/18

Waitlists? Sure. "Lots" of rejections? Not seeing it.
http://bc.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:45 pm

CalF123 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:27 pm
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:14 pm
CalF123 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:40 pm
BC have rejected lots of applicants with better numbers this year.
I wasn't going to address it before, but this is now several times you've posted this line. Unless you have access to data I don't, the numbers don't really back you up.

See here: https://www.lawschooldata.org/school/Bo ... College/18

Waitlists? Sure. "Lots" of rejections? Not seeing it.
http://bc.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants
This didn't help your case. Going through the list of applicants on LSN, I count a grand total of 2 rejections that were above both my GPA and LSAT. I gave you a pretty broad range to work with, I don't know why you assumed I was on the lowest end of both.

LSN also has a much smaller sample size than LSD, I suggest using LSD. Please see the edit from my previous comment.

Arguing over this isn't the point of the thread. It's the last time I'll address it.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by Wubbles » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm

Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by CanadianWolf » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:59 am

OP: Your thoughts seem very reasonable to me since you will consider the University of Texas and UCLA in addition to T-14 law schools. Attending a T-20 public university law school tuition free is an incredible benefit worth extra effort.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by objctnyrhnr » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:26 pm

WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.
I’m not saying don’t retake. But presuming some hypo where you get UT or whatever debt free with your gpa and a so so LSAT when law schools have gotten wayyy more competitive this year and probably will remain like this next year....I mean nobody is saying take BC at low COL over UT virtually debt free or whatever. But the reality is you only have one of those things. I’m a firm believer in testing like 4-6- maybe 8 points above your score max. It happened to me, and thinking the way you do I took the Lsat 4 times to try to approach my practicing score. So I’m always skeptical when people say “but I’m testing at x” in terms of its predictive value...especially when there’s a big decision on the line.

To me, assuming you’re cool with boston, BC law school with very very low COL in a strong Econ is a solid result. Could it be better? Sure. You could get a full ride at Ut. But you don’t have the numbers to even approach that kind of result. And with your low gpa, I’m not sure you could get something like that even with a substantial Lsat score increase.

I mean how bad do you want to go to law school? Enough to let it go entirely unless you what...somehow manage a huge amount of merit aid from a t14 with your gpa and a huge Lsat boost? If so, then shoot for that and be t14 or bust.

But if you want to look at realistic outcomes with your gpa and Lsat that also mitigate the risk of doing worse next time around in an increasingly competitive admissions environment, then a strong t20/30 in a city you like enough going into a boom biglaw year strikes me as acceptable.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by Wubbles » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:06 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:26 pm
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.
I’m not saying don’t retake. But presuming some hypo where you get UT or whatever debt free with your gpa and a so so LSAT when law schools have gotten wayyy more competitive this year and probably will remain like this next year....I mean nobody is saying take BC at low COL over UT virtually debt free or whatever. But the reality is you only have one of those things. I’m a firm believer in testing like 4-6- maybe 8 points above your score max. It happened to me, and thinking the way you do I took the Lsat 4 times to try to approach my practicing score. So I’m always skeptical when people say “but I’m testing at x” in terms of its predictive value...especially when there’s a big decision on the line.

To me, assuming you’re cool with boston, BC law school with very very low COL in a strong Econ is a solid result. Could it be better? Sure. You could get a full ride at Ut. But you don’t have the numbers to even approach that kind of result. And with your low gpa, I’m not sure you could get something like that even with a substantial Lsat score increase.

I mean how bad do you want to go to law school? Enough to let it go entirely unless you what...somehow manage a huge amount of merit aid from a t14 with your gpa and a huge Lsat boost? If so, then shoot for that and be t14 or bust.

But if you want to look at realistic outcomes with your gpa and Lsat that also mitigate the risk of doing worse next time around in an increasingly competitive admissions environment, then a strong t20/30 in a city you like enough going into a boom biglaw year strikes me as acceptable.
I could not disagree more with your takes in this thread.

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Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by objctnyrhnr » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:31 pm

Wubbles wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:06 pm
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:26 pm
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.
I’m not saying don’t retake. But presuming some hypo where you get UT or whatever debt free with your gpa and a so so LSAT when law schools have gotten wayyy more competitive this year and probably will remain like this next year....I mean nobody is saying take BC at low COL over UT virtually debt free or whatever. But the reality is you only have one of those things. I’m a firm believer in testing like 4-6- maybe 8 points above your score max. It happened to me, and thinking the way you do I took the Lsat 4 times to try to approach my practicing score. So I’m always skeptical when people say “but I’m testing at x” in terms of its predictive value...especially when there’s a big decision on the line.

To me, assuming you’re cool with boston, BC law school with very very low COL in a strong Econ is a solid result. Could it be better? Sure. You could get a full ride at Ut. But you don’t have the numbers to even approach that kind of result. And with your low gpa, I’m not sure you could get something like that even with a substantial Lsat score increase.

I mean how bad do you want to go to law school? Enough to let it go entirely unless you what...somehow manage a huge amount of merit aid from a t14 with your gpa and a huge Lsat boost? If so, then shoot for that and be t14 or bust.

But if you want to look at realistic outcomes with your gpa and Lsat that also mitigate the risk of doing worse next time around in an increasingly competitive admissions environment, then a strong t20/30 in a city you like enough going into a boom biglaw year strikes me as acceptable.
I could not disagree more with your takes in this thread.
I’d disagree with objctnyrhnr’s takes here too if I came into every post with an assumption that anybody can just increase their Lsat 4-5 points on a whim (as it appears that you do)...and also, maybe less significantly, that a 3.1 gpa won’t be a dealbreaker for a non-URM in the t14 next year.

Bird in the hand worth two in the bush etc etc.

Look you may be right. Maybe OP can increase his Lsat 4-5 points in august. Get all his aps in for September. Get some t14 action (probably at sticker) for schools that try to lock in that Lsat number early on. And if that happens then of course it’s a better bet for OPs goals than what he has now—BC with low COA.

But if that doesn’t happen and OP has his same numbers and goes to apply again, after schools have recalibrated their standards to accommodate the huge bump in higher level applications they’re seeing this year, then OP could end up with way less money at the same schools...or worse a rejection/WL.

That’s all I’m saying. Not that BC/Bu/Fordham are worth attending in all scenarios, nor even necessarily that Op should definitely go to law school. Just that rolling the dice as you recommend comes with some risk—risk that I might not advise gambling on.

If OP could mitigate that risk by quasi enrolling at BC then considerably improving Lsat then somehow unenrolling that might be the best move, which I suggested a few posts ago.

Wubbles

Bronze
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by Wubbles » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:54 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:31 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:06 pm
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:26 pm
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.
I’m not saying don’t retake. But presuming some hypo where you get UT or whatever debt free with your gpa and a so so LSAT when law schools have gotten wayyy more competitive this year and probably will remain like this next year....I mean nobody is saying take BC at low COL over UT virtually debt free or whatever. But the reality is you only have one of those things. I’m a firm believer in testing like 4-6- maybe 8 points above your score max. It happened to me, and thinking the way you do I took the Lsat 4 times to try to approach my practicing score. So I’m always skeptical when people say “but I’m testing at x” in terms of its predictive value...especially when there’s a big decision on the line.

To me, assuming you’re cool with boston, BC law school with very very low COL in a strong Econ is a solid result. Could it be better? Sure. You could get a full ride at Ut. But you don’t have the numbers to even approach that kind of result. And with your low gpa, I’m not sure you could get something like that even with a substantial Lsat score increase.

I mean how bad do you want to go to law school? Enough to let it go entirely unless you what...somehow manage a huge amount of merit aid from a t14 with your gpa and a huge Lsat boost? If so, then shoot for that and be t14 or bust.

But if you want to look at realistic outcomes with your gpa and Lsat that also mitigate the risk of doing worse next time around in an increasingly competitive admissions environment, then a strong t20/30 in a city you like enough going into a boom biglaw year strikes me as acceptable.
I could not disagree more with your takes in this thread.
I’d disagree with objctnyrhnr’s takes here too if I came into every post with an assumption that anybody can just increase their Lsat 4-5 points on a whim (as it appears that you do)...and also, maybe less significantly, that a 3.1 gpa won’t be a dealbreaker for a non-URM in the t14 next year.

Bird in the hand worth two in the bush etc etc.

Look you may be right. Maybe OP can increase his Lsat 4-5 points in august. Get all his aps in for September. Get some t14 action (probably at sticker) for schools that try to lock in that Lsat number early on. And if that happens then of course it’s a better bet for OPs goals than what he has now—BC with low COA.

But if that doesn’t happen and OP has his same numbers and goes to apply again, after schools have recalibrated their standards to accommodate the huge bump in higher level applications they’re seeing this year, then OP could end up with way less money at the same schools...or worse a rejection/WL.

That’s all I’m saying. Not that BC/Bu/Fordham are worth attending in all scenarios, nor even necessarily that Op should definitely go to law school. Just that rolling the dice as you recommend comes with some risk—risk that I might not advise gambling on.

If OP could mitigate that risk by quasi enrolling at BC then considerably improving Lsat then somehow unenrolling that might be the best move, which I suggested a few posts ago.
Eh, I guess we'll agree to disagree. I just see being so close to a home run and not going for it to be a waste of the military benefits. If OP did not have military benefits, had those numbers, had that COA at BC, I'd agree that they should go for it if they want to be a lawyer. But the military benefits change the reward level for me, because I would not be recommending the same thing if OP was just trying to squeak into a T14 at full price and actually having to pay it.

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WhatIsLaw69

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:37 pm

Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by WhatIsLaw69 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:25 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:31 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:06 pm
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:26 pm
WhatIsLaw69 wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:13 pm
Wubbles wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think OP can get a higher LSAT score and be admitted to a T14 next year. And I think OP can also get the home run of getting into a T14 public school, where the bang for your buck is absolutely the best with military benefits. OP doesn't have to get any scholarship, literally just get in, and it's worth it. This would be the easiest choice in the world for me.
Yeah that's the rub, right? I'm incredibly fortunate to have some very good offers at great schools...but all I'd need to do is get in. Walking out of UVA or Michigan (Berk is likely out of the question with their pseudo GPA floor) virtually debt free would be the absolute best situation I could hope for. Failing that, UCLA or UT would still leave me debt free.

Every time I decide I'm happy with one of my offers, a voice in the back of my head says essentially what you said. It doesn't help that they happen to be two of the three most splitter friendly schools.
I’m not saying don’t retake. But presuming some hypo where you get UT or whatever debt free with your gpa and a so so LSAT when law schools have gotten wayyy more competitive this year and probably will remain like this next year....I mean nobody is saying take BC at low COL over UT virtually debt free or whatever. But the reality is you only have one of those things. I’m a firm believer in testing like 4-6- maybe 8 points above your score max. It happened to me, and thinking the way you do I took the Lsat 4 times to try to approach my practicing score. So I’m always skeptical when people say “but I’m testing at x” in terms of its predictive value...especially when there’s a big decision on the line.

To me, assuming you’re cool with boston, BC law school with very very low COL in a strong Econ is a solid result. Could it be better? Sure. You could get a full ride at Ut. But you don’t have the numbers to even approach that kind of result. And with your low gpa, I’m not sure you could get something like that even with a substantial Lsat score increase.

I mean how bad do you want to go to law school? Enough to let it go entirely unless you what...somehow manage a huge amount of merit aid from a t14 with your gpa and a huge Lsat boost? If so, then shoot for that and be t14 or bust.

But if you want to look at realistic outcomes with your gpa and Lsat that also mitigate the risk of doing worse next time around in an increasingly competitive admissions environment, then a strong t20/30 in a city you like enough going into a boom biglaw year strikes me as acceptable.
I could not disagree more with your takes in this thread.
I’d disagree with objctnyrhnr’s takes here too if I came into every post with an assumption that anybody can just increase their Lsat 4-5 points on a whim (as it appears that you do)...and also, maybe less significantly, that a 3.1 gpa won’t be a dealbreaker for a non-URM in the t14 next year.

Bird in the hand worth two in the bush etc etc.

Look you may be right. Maybe OP can increase his Lsat 4-5 points in august. Get all his aps in for September. Get some t14 action (probably at sticker) for schools that try to lock in that Lsat number early on. And if that happens then of course it’s a better bet for OPs goals than what he has now—BC with low COA.

But if that doesn’t happen and OP has his same numbers and goes to apply again, after schools have recalibrated their standards to accommodate the huge bump in higher level applications they’re seeing this year, then OP could end up with way less money at the same schools...or worse a rejection/WL.

That’s all I’m saying. Not that BC/Bu/Fordham are worth attending in all scenarios, nor even necessarily that Op should definitely go to law school. Just that rolling the dice as you recommend comes with some risk—risk that I might not advise gambling on.

If OP could mitigate that risk by quasi enrolling at BC then considerably improving Lsat then somehow unenrolling that might be the best move, which I suggested a few posts ago.
So I think the situation you described is probably objectively the lowest risk scenario possible for me. I'm just not sure it's feasible. It might be, I have to look at it closer, but at first glance the dates don't seem like they line up. I need to wait and see when LSAC announces their release date.

Regarding the situation where I reapply with the same numbers, I wouldn't. If I do end up retaking and don't score where I believe I would need to, I wouldn't apply. In that situation, I likely wouldn't go. You're likely right in that schools will have adjusted and I'd be left out in the cold. If I do score high enough, I think the increase would be enough to get back in to these schools even if I didn't net Mich/UVA/UT/UCLA.

But I also feel like I'm letting perfect get in the way of good here, a bit. BC is a great school, Boston as a city is thriving, and your thesis for a bullish hiring market makes perfect sense to me.

JamezPhoenix

New
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:03 am

Re: UIUC, BC, or retake/reapply? Really just want to make sure the answer is indeed R/R.

Post by JamezPhoenix » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:18 am

[/quote]

But I also feel like I'm letting perfect get in the way of good here, a bit. BC is a great school, Boston as a city is thriving, and your thesis for a bullish hiring market makes perfect sense to me.
[/quote]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

Sounds like your heart is in Boston. Go for it!

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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