Top Law Schools

The president of Princeton Christopher L Eisgruber has openly admitted to Princeton allowing systemic racism. Due to the president’s letter, Princeton is currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Education, since the school receives money from taxpayers. Princeton isn’t the only law school to get investigated by the Department of Education over issues of race. In fact, earlier this summer the justice department determined that Yale's admissions processes discriminate against White & Asian applicants.

Do you think Princeton's President was just "virtue signaling" to "woke liberals" or do you think Princeton is truly racist?

It'll be the end of Princeton Law School, no doubt in my mind.

mjb's response is truly gold.

mjb447 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:02 pm

It'll be the end of Princeton Law School, no doubt in my mind.

I still think it will hang around longer than "Yale."

Can someone please explain why the "admin" is posting trash like this? From not knowing Princeton has no law school, to inviting yet-another flame war over affirmative action -- just no.

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:56 pm

The president of Princeton Christopher L Eisgruber has openly admitted to Princeton allowing systemic racism. Due to the president’s letter, Princeton is currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Education, since the school receives money from taxpayers. Princeton isn’t the only law school to get investigated by the Department of Education over issues of race. In fact, earlier this summer the justice department determined that Yale's admissions processes discriminate against White & Asian applicants.

Do you think Princeton's President was just "virtue signaling" to "woke liberals" or do you think Princeton is truly racist?

This may be explain why there were 0 Princeton law alums in my V10 class.

I would certainly take any resume that had Princeton Law on it with a grain of salt.

Has this mod's account been compromised?

Are they not supposed to be?

A bit surprised to read this about Princeton Law, although I have long had doubts about Dartmouth Law in this respect.

dabigchina wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:06 pm

AdminMegan wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:56 pm

The president of Princeton Christopher L Eisgruber has openly admitted to Princeton allowing systemic racism. Due to the president’s letter, Princeton is currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Education, since the school receives money from taxpayers. Princeton isn’t the only law school to get investigated by the Department of Education over issues of race. In fact, earlier this summer the justice department determined that Yale's admissions processes discriminate against White & Asian applicants.

Do you think Princeton's President was just "virtue signaling" to "woke liberals" or do you think Princeton is truly racist?

This may be explain why there were 0 Princeton law alums in my V10 class.

I would certainly take any resume that had Princeton Law on it with a grain of salt.

Fun fact: Princeton did have a law school between 1847 and 1852. It's possible that there have been Princeton law grads in firms now part of the V10, although there were only seven graduates total. The last graduate still practicing would likely have barely made it into the 20th century. It is highly likely that Princeton law school was institutionally racist given the time period in which it operated. Presumably, it did not admit any people of color.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:36 am

A bit surprised to read this about Princeton Law, although I have long had doubts about Dartmouth Law in this respect.

Don't get me started on Brown law!

Y'all are just bitter because no matter how hard you tried, you couldn't get into Princeton Law. Losers.

nealric wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:13 pm

Fun fact: Princeton did have a law school between 1847 and 1852. It's possible that there have been Princeton law grads in firms now part of the V10, although there were only seven graduates total. The last graduate still practicing would likely have barely made it into the 20th century. It is highly likely that Princeton law school was institutionally racist given the time period in which it operated. Presumably, it did not admit any people of color.

Not to derail this important thread, but I've always wondered why Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth and some other elite schools like Johns Hopkins don't have law schools. It seems like building a law school at an established university would have great ROI, since you basically only need a building with lecture halls and some lawyers to teach. Both of those are relatively cheap and you can still charge your students exorbitant fees. It's not like establishing a medical school, which requires building classrooms, a hospital, and hiring scarce doctors to teach.

I guess there are historical reasons for not doing so, but if Princeton wanted to open a law school 20 years ago or even now, they'd be in the top 10 within a couple years.

tl;dr butthurt that I couldn't get in to Princeton Law

edit: Johns* Hopkins. This is why I didn't get in to JHLS

AdieuCali wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:04 am

nealric wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:13 pm

Fun fact: Princeton did have a law school between 1847 and 1852. It's possible that there have been Princeton law grads in firms now part of the V10, although there were only seven graduates total. The last graduate still practicing would likely have barely made it into the 20th century. It is highly likely that Princeton law school was institutionally racist given the time period in which it operated. Presumably, it did not admit any people of color.

Not to derail this important thread, but I've always wondered why Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth and some other elite schools like Johns Hopkins don't have law schools. It seems like building a law school at an established university would have great ROI, since you basically only need a building with lecture halls and some lawyers to teach. Both of those are relatively cheap and you can still charge your students exorbitant fees. It's not like establishing a medical school, which requires building classrooms, a hospital, and hiring scarce doctors to teach.

I guess there are historical reasons for not doing so, but if Princeton wanted to open a law school 20 years ago or even now, they'd be in the top 10 within a couple years.

tl;dr butthurt that I couldn't get in to Princeton Law

edit: Johns* Hopkins. This is why I didn't get in to JHLS

Dartmouth, Brown, and Princeton are primarily undergraduate focused. They do have some graduate programs, but they are not comprehensive. Schools like Harvard, Yale, and Columbia have much more comprehensive graduate openings.

I suppose they could all open law schools, but it would require a lot of money up front to attract the high caliber students and profs they would need, so the investment would take a long time to pay off. Given that they try to focus on undergraduate education, I can see why they haven't made the jump. Those schools also have a surfeit of top schools in their regions, so a lot of competition.

It's too late now to start a top-20 law school unless some donor randomly decides they want to spend 9 figures or more making it happen. T13s aren't that profitable and often rely on their special LS endowments to make ends meet.

So you'd basically be spending a ton of money to maybe have a prestigious law school that, hopefully, would break even. Or you could have a less-prestigious law school that would produce revenue but might be a bit of an embarrassment for a university as high on its on farts as Princeton is. Kind of like an extension school, except way more expensive to get started (you need physical plant, new faculty/staff, etc.).

Also, all of P/B/D/JH are in or near the Acela corridor, which is already lousy with law schools, and they're in relatively economically-marginal parts of that region. No demand pulling them into the market. There's just a lot of headwinds and not much upside, financially or reputationally.

I'm sure ego and internal politics play a role in it too. If you were a hotshot academic at woodrow wilson (or whatever Princeton's school of government is called now) would you want to deal with a influx of prestigious legal academics into your school who could dilute your power in internal policy making?

AdieuCali wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:04 am

nealric wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:13 pm

Fun fact: Princeton did have a law school between 1847 and 1852. It's possible that there have been Princeton law grads in firms now part of the V10, although there were only seven graduates total. The last graduate still practicing would likely have barely made it into the 20th century. It is highly likely that Princeton law school was institutionally racist given the time period in which it operated. Presumably, it did not admit any people of color.

Not to derail this important thread, but I've always wondered why Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth and some other elite schools like Johns Hopkins don't have law schools. It seems like building a law school at an established university would have great ROI, since you basically only need a building with lecture halls and some lawyers to teach. Both of those are relatively cheap and you can still charge your students exorbitant fees. It's not like establishing a medical school, which requires building classrooms, a hospital, and hiring scarce doctors to teach.

I guess there are historical reasons for not doing so, but if Princeton wanted to open a law school 20 years ago or even now, they'd be in the top 10 within a couple years.

tl;dr butthurt that I couldn't get in to Princeton Law

edit: Johns* Hopkins. This is why I didn't get in to JHLS

AdieuCali wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:04 am

Not to derail this important thread, but I've always wondered why Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth and some other elite schools like Johns Hopkins don't have law schools. It seems like building a law school at an established university would have great ROI, since you basically only need a building with lecture halls and some lawyers to teach. Both of those are relatively cheap and you can still charge your students exorbitant fees. It's not like establishing a medical school, which requires building classrooms, a hospital, and hiring scarce doctors to teach.

I guess there are historical reasons for not doing so, but if Princeton wanted to open a law school 20 years ago or even now, they'd be in the top 10 within a couple years.

tl;dr butthurt that I couldn't get in to Princeton Law

edit: Johns* Hopkins. This is why I didn't get in to JHLS

I wish I could track down the source, but Princeton discussed the idea of restarting its law school in the 80s or something like that. The Board decided to not move forward, because their analysis was that it'd cost $1 billion+ to bring it up to a HYS class institution. Princeton is pretty much phenomenal in all of its graduate programs. It was not looking to be a Georgetown, or even a Columbia, of the law school world.

Johns Hopkins is relatively poor for its standing, especially pre-Bloomberg, and has a ton of mediocre graduate programs. It probably isn't interested in another mediocre program and stretching its financial resources further when it's already poorly endowed compared to its competition.

Brown and Dartmouth are so hyper undergraduate based that they'd never even entertain a law school.

I agree that Dartmouth is generally really undergrad based (they get really annoyed if you call it “Dartmouth University” instead of Dartmouth College) but that doesn’t stop them from having a business school, a med school, and a bunch of PhD programs in the sciences.

(That said, I get not wanting to incur the expense of adding a law school in the modern era. And there are a zillion law schools in the northeast for Dartmouth grads to go to.)

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:45 am

Johns Hopkins is relatively poor for its standing, especially pre-Bloomberg, and has a ton of mediocre graduate programs. It probably isn't interested in another mediocre program and stretching its financial resources further when it's already poorly endowed compared to its competition.

Didn't JHU pioneer the model of a research university? Odd they don't have a law school.

laanngo wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:52 pm

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:45 am

Johns Hopkins is relatively poor for its standing, especially pre-Bloomberg, and has a ton of mediocre graduate programs. It probably isn't interested in another mediocre program and stretching its financial resources further when it's already poorly endowed compared to its competition.

Didn't JHU pioneer the model of a research university? Odd they don't have a law school.

Law and academic research aren’t really anything alike at all.

nixy wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:00 am

Law and academic research aren’t really anything alike at all.

What about legal academia and the rest of academia?

The point of a JD program is to produce JDs. The JD is a professional degree, not a research degree. And frankly legal academic research would probably be better conducted in actual academic subject area departments like poli sci, philosophy, Econ, history, etc.