Uncreative123 wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 10:37 pm
nealric wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 4:01 pm
Op, the problem is that for better or worse, prospective employers care quite a bit where you went to school.
Do they? You really believe that a middle of the pack Harvard graduate fresh out of school has better job prospects, let's just say in whistleblower law, over an attorney who went to some unranked school but has won multiple cases, some with awards in excess of $150 million? And you're committing to that statement? *This is a real example by the way, which I can answer for you if you want.
nealric wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 4:01 pm
The question then is what the plan for the debt with a small salary, and the contingency plan if you struggle to find employment. A lot of people in your will be gunning for those jobs, and they will be just as motivated as you.
You (and others) have to read posts in their entirety, my man. If I'm already struggling with a six-figure student loan debt, then how much of a difference is another $30k really going to make? What- I have to get Great Value brand ramen now instead of top-shelf name brand ramen? And if I'm not struggling with a six-figure student loan debt, somehow all of a sudden $30k is going to leave me poverty stricken?
cavalier1138 wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 4:45 pm
I'm not sure you quite understand. I'm not trying to throw credentials around. I'm not trying to brag. My firm (and based on the other people who are posting here, I am not uniquely situated) has no attorneys who graduated from either of these schools. We don't interview 2Ls from either school. I'm sure it would be possible to lateral after having worked elsewhere, but that's rare.
Like it or not, legal employers care deeply about where you went to school and how you did there (in that order). A median student from UVA will get offers from firms that a student in the top 10% at Drake will struggle to land an interview at. This isn't bragging or some sort of "bro off." It's a sad fact about legal hiring.
Again, you go ahead and throw your money away on this. But please don't enter under the illusion that >40% of your classmates will fail to land jobs after graduation due to their own lack of hustle.
Well which is it? Is it their lack of hustle or that they went to a low-tier school? Or are you making a false equivalency that they are one in the same?
You are throwing credentials around. Your entire premise is based on the importance of a singular credential (two, if you're counting class rank now). Of what importance is it that "your firm" hasn't hired anyone that graduated from these schools? (Please- if you answer nothing else, make it that question.) Did you think I was interested or would want a position at your
firm? ::Insert predictable remark about how you'd never hire me anyway::
I'm just curious, not being facetious or anything, can you explain the difference in the educated subject material from Yale vs. Drake without referencing alumni as part of your explanation? Does their law library have hidden books with secret proprietary information that can't be obtained anywhere else or something? Do they teach you how to become a sommelier of your own farts? What is it exactly? Dumb it down for me. Talk to me as if I'm completely clueless. You know, basically the same way you have been so far.
Here's a real brain teaser for you: Do you think Harvard/Columbia/Yale/Circle-jerk U produce so many successfully lawyers because they're such great institutions? Or do you think the people who gained admission are of such skill and intellect that they could have succeeded even if they went to Cal- Hastings?
From everything I've ever seen, aside from Legally Blonde, it seems like those top tier schools only take really smart, capable people. I think it would be more of a testament to the greatness of these institutions if they could take a dummy like me and turn them into someone (or something) that would be worthy of an interview at your prestigious firm.
Also- what do you in the event that you have two prospective job seekers- one graduated from Harvard, one graduated from Stanford- But at the time the Harvard graduate was admitted Harvard was ranked #3 while Stanford was ranked #2, but by the time each had graduated, Harvard was ranked #2 again pushing Stanford back to #3, *but also* now in current year, Stanford is back to #2 and Harvard is #3. What do you do? Do you like try to gauge their intellect individually or something? Look on their resume for something besides the school they went to? Do their resumes even have anything aside from the rank and school they went to?
The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 5:03 pm
Nobody is saying that more money will make you happy. You need to contend with the obverse: Having negative
net worth with no means of escaping that debt will make you unhappy. Tens of thousands in law-school debt will hang on you like a millstone around your neck, constraining your options in life and making any other economic decision feel like swimming in quicksand. You will struggle to provide for your son and for your own retirement.
I dunno. I may have negative net worth right now with no way out and currently be pretty happy. I feel like if you go back and read what I wrote about my current student loan status you could more accurately gauge how I perceive the threat of additional tens of thousands of dollars of debt.
omgomghi wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 5:18 pm
This thread is either top-notch trolling or an example of someone’s mind melting down in real time.
OP, if you’re not trolling, you need to take a deep breath and listen to the other posters. You say you don’t like people flashing credentials, but then you turn around and flash (undistinguished) life experience (which is honestly a pretty pathetic move and a symptom of the meltdown). You may have life experience, but you evidently have no experience with law school. That’s fine. That’s why you asked this forum. Now absorb what you’re being told — that’s a pretty basic lawyering skill TBH.
I’ll leave aside the harsh things I could say, but trust me that there are several other red flags in your posts that I and others see, and which inform my response here.
It's interesting that you find my comments about not giving a shit about where someone went to school as being symptomatic of a meltdown. As long as you're playing psychologist you should consider what that reveals about you. That, in conjunction with the fact that you felt it necessary to mention that others
(not just yourself) see it too.
I don't know what the rest of your post is about or if it's some random incoherent thought or was meant for a different thread.
nixy wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 6:00 pm
Kathleen Zellner graduated from NIU in 1981, when law school cost like $5 a semester and during a completely different employment universe than today. You can’t use her career as a model.
Sorry, did NIU use to be a T14 school or something? What does the cost of law school in 1981 have to do with its ranking amongst other schools? Same question but for "employment universe".
I used her as an example of a successful high-profile attorney coming from a low-ranked/unranked school. I don't know what you're doing.
nixy wrote: ↑
Mon May 25, 2020 6:00 pm
As people have pointed out, you absolutely can get a criminal defense job out of Drake. But it isn’t about how much money you make, it’s how much it costs you to get there.
Criminal defense isn’t a high paying field for servicing debt. If you work as a public defender you can work toward loan forgiveness, assuming it doesn’t go away. You’re the only person who can decide what kind of risks you want to take; people here are generally risk averse (comes with being a lawyer).
Yeah, you've definitely missed the point.
That's what "it" is for you- not me.