Law School Decision Help/Advice Forum

[boys421]

First, I want to start off by saying a lot of the responses/predictions I've read on here I've found to be true so far this cycle. Perhaps particularly when it was something I'd rather have not been true. So, I appreciate the (sometimes brutal) honesty on this forum.

So far this cycle I've been accepted to Emory with ~65% scholarship, Texas A&M with 90% scholarship, waitlisted at UT and UVA and interviewing with WUSTL soon. Still waiting to hear back from some other schools, including other T14s but at this point, I'm not optimistic.

I knew getting into the T14 and even T20 was going to be a hurdle because of my LSDAS, I thought (hoped) I could overcome this due to the fact that my low GPA is the result of a series of very poor decisions in ~2008-2009, which is obviously many years ago. But, the predictions on here were, unfortunately, correct and it's not looking like I'll be able to. My LSDAS is ~3.1, 169 LSAT.

In the years since I got my life together (2016), my GPA is 3.78 and I'll be graduating with an Electrical Engineering degree next month. I recognize it's irrelevant that I've had a good GPA in the past 4 years, I just mention it to show the upward trend in a difficult major that I was able to highlight in my application. As an aside, I'm honestly still a little shocked my LSDAS is even above 3.0, as it includes about 9 F's and 4 D's from the aforementioned "poor-decision years."

Curious to hear the opinions on my best option between Emory, A&M, and say SMU, if my goal is biglaw -- right now thinking patent lit but don't want to get pigeonholed into strictly IP either. I don't really have a preference as to a particular region of the country after law school, but would prefer to be in a big city. The waitlist thing is tough as I don't view my chances as being very high and I'm hesitant to put my wife through a summer of not knowing where we may live and in which city she'll be applying for jobs, etc.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[cavalier1138]

If you want biglaw, A&M shouldn't even be on your radar. Emory is the best of your list right now, and it's defensible with that scholarship. Just bear in mind that the hiring market could be depressed for a few years, depending on the long-term economic effects of this pandemic. So make sure you aren't taking on so much debt that you're only going to be able to pay it off in biglaw.

[decimalsanddollars]

Agree w Cav that Emory is your current best option and not a bad one. I'd consider deferring it a year if you can keep the scholarship, retaking the LSAT, and reapplying everywhere else. Even a few points of increase would significantly improve your outcomes next cycle, and you'd be less likely to start the job hunt at an awful time to do so. SMU, for what it's worth, would only be worth it if (1) you wanted to be in Dallas and it cost less than Emory, or (2) you wanted to be somewhere else in Texas and it was much less expensive than Emory (say, >$50k COA difference).

A&M is still too unproven to give any bankable forecast of biglaw odds, but they place maybe a dozen or two grads per year in biglaw, which includes non-market-paying large firms like Kelly Hart & Hallman, Akerman, Carrington Coleman, etc. That's about 10% of the class, and virtually all biglaw is out of reach for everyone but the top quarter. They also place maybe 3-5 federal clerks per year, but again, these are top performers. Even with a good schol offer, it's not wise to assume you'll be a top performer at any law school; you should generally assume you'll be around median and note outcomes at that level. For A&M, median does not yield any real shot at biglaw. Emory and SMU at least have a medium-longish shot from median, and Emory's odds are better than SMU generally at each level.

[boys421]

So make sure you aren't taking on so much debt that you're only going to be able to pay it off in biglaw.

Yes, good advice in the current climate. Thank you.

I see both of you are in agreement that Emory is my best bet right now. What if I did get into WUSTL or Vandy with say a small scholarship? Is the difference in job outlook between Emory and those two significant enough to warrant taking on considerably more debt?

I'd consider deferring it a year if you can keep the scholarship, retaking the LSAT, and reapplying everywhere else. Even a few points of increase would significantly improve your outcomes next cycle

I agree, and I'd love to be able to. If I were 24 this is exactly what I'd do. But I'm 31 so I kinda feel like it's time for me to get this show on the road, so to speak. The real reason, however, is I'd never be able to convince my wife to go for this option. She's been dropping not so subtle hints for a while now that she's ready to start having kids ASAP.

Just out of curiosity, is part of my trouble with cracking the T14 so far due to not getting my applications in until March 1st? Or was it always going to be hard given my LSDAS and good-but-not-great LSAT?

[crazywafflez]

Emory is your best bet. I would be careful with A&M- and I seriously considered the school (a lot of my family is from the area and my grandpa was an aggie). But as the previous posters said it is still too unproven. Give it 10 years and I think it'll be second in Texas- but you'll be in the market before then. I'd really take Emory and it is a decent option with the package you've received. Emory was actually one of my top picks as well and it was in the running for my top 3- ended up choosing my current school but purely because of the scholly offers I received.
Best of luck.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Just out of curiosity, is part of my trouble with cracking the T14 so far due to not getting my applications in until March 1st? Or was it always going to be hard given my LSDAS and good-but-not-great LSAT?

Late application is pretty much a dead letter with your numbers; the slots for barely-splitters were filled a long time ago. You'd have plausible (not great) chances applying in October with a 3.1/169, and pretty decent (but not guaranteed) chances with a 3.1/172 or something.

The main thing you definitely missed out on by applying so late is a chance for a full ride at a school like Emory, or WUSTL or something. It's worth taking a hard think about.

[QContinuum]

I agree, and I'd love to be able to. If I were 24 this is exactly what I'd do. But I'm 31 so I kinda feel like it's time for me to get this show on the road, so to speak. The real reason, however, is I'd never be able to convince my wife to go for this option. She's been dropping not so subtle hints for a while now that she's ready to start having kids ASAP.

Lots of great advice already in this thread. I wanted to address the above. I don't see why wanting to have kids precludes waiting a year to start law school. Presumably, assuming your wife's also 31, she doesn't want to wait until fall 2023 to start trying (when she'd be 34), and would want to have at least one kid during law school. So... how does graduating in spring 2023 vs. spring 2024 fundamentally change this? Or is your wife willing to wait for fall 2023, but not for fall 2024?

[boys421]

So... how does graduating in spring 2023 vs. spring 2024 fundamentally change this? Or is your wife willing to wait for fall 2023, but not for fall 2024?

I hear you, believe me. But, it's a little more than just that one issue. I mentioned I had some years where I wasn't making the best decisions; unfortunately, that went on for some time and she's been there through a lot of it and supported us through it and all that. She's expressed to me that she's opposed to putting law school off for a year, and I just don't really want to push the issue...I feel like I owe it to her to respect what she wants on this one if you know what I mean.

[QContinuum]

So... how does graduating in spring 2023 vs. spring 2024 fundamentally change this? Or is your wife willing to wait for fall 2023, but not for fall 2024?

I hear you, believe me. But, it's a little more than just that one issue. I mentioned I had some years where I wasn't making the best decisions; unfortunately, that went on for some time and she's been there through a lot of it and supported us through it and all that. She's expressed to me that she's opposed to putting law school off for a year, and I just don't really want to push the issue...I feel like I owe it to her to respect what she wants on this one if you know what I mean.

I hear ya. Here's some armchair marriage counseling from ol' Q: I think you owe it to your wife to explain why reapplying and waiting a year is the best decision for your career prospects and your finances. Point her to this thread if helpful. Show her the admissions calculator on MyLSN. Heck, I'd be happy to speak with her on the phone. Hate to see you effectively locking yourself out of BigLaw preemptively in order to keep the peace now - that really only puts off the pain, and does your future children a disservice.