UVA($$$$) vs Columbia($$?) Forum

[2020alum]

Hey everyone,

I was fortunate to receive a Dillard from UVA, however, I'm having commitment issues and wondering if anyone could help make this decision a bit easier. I haven't officially gotten an offer from Columbia, though I received $/$$ from UChicago and NYU and am assuming it will be similar. I plan to try to clerk and then to go into Biglaw in either Nashville or NYC and I'm not extremely debt averse as I have very little from undergrad. Would I be throwing away $150k by picking CLS?

[Wild Card]

UVA is a really good law school.

One of my classmates at CCN turned down the Dillard for nothing (!), and the classmate ended up below median as a 1L and is now at a V100.

If you get only 45,000 or 50,000 from CCN, you'll likely graduate with about 220,000 in debt. Also, if you're extremely aggressive in paying down your loans, the most you'll be able to pay is 50,000 a year (assuming you rent a place in the city). So it would still take you about 4 years to pay off all of that debt. Meanwhile, you're saving only 20,000 to 30,000 per year--plus another 20,000 per year in your 401(k), but you can't touch that.

Law firms are laying off first year associates now, and they were laying off second year associates before.

You know what you should do.

[nixy]

Would I be throwing away $150k by picking CLS?

Yes.

[Sackboy]

The Dillard is one of the best outcomes for a law school applicant. Unless you've got a Ruby/Levy/other CCN full-ride on the table, there isn't a better outcome. I'd take a Dillard over any CCN at half price. Not having $150k-$200k of debt on your shoulders when you graduate is a big deal. UVA has a fantastic record of placing in federal clerkships and biglaw. If you want to practice in Nashville or NYC, it's a fantastic option, because it has regional ties to Nashville and NYC doesn't give a fuck where you come from. Columbia is going to be a tougher sell in Nashville, even if just marginally. This isn't a question about being debt adverse for you. This is about how much $$$ do you need to spend to get what you want. You have a very modest goal. Your goal is the equivalent of needing a daily driver to get to and back from work, and you're pondering buying a Porsche instead of accepting a free Mercedes Benz. Both will have no problem getting the job done. One of them, however, will saddle you with six figure debt.

[AJordan]

Obviously can't predict what the market will be like after Covid blows over but New York biglaw firms, barring the Cravaths of the world, are all over UVa all the time. You will have no trouble getting NY biglaw here as long as the market doesn't crash. Also, between ten and twenty percent of the class secure a federal clerkship. Ruth Payne, the clerkship director, is someone you want in your corner when searching for a clerkship. She's awesome. Federal Appellate clerkships are hard to get at UVa just like they are everywhere. But Ruth promises she will keep at it with you through multiple cycles and after you graduate. I trust her. She gets results.

All this to say that it's my biased view that I don't think a focus on your career goals should be the deciding factor. You can get them at Columbia. You can get them at UVa as long as you aren't completely blowing off law school and even then I'd bet on Ruth to land you a clerkship.

There are other reasons to prefer Columbia, most obviously that you prefer living in NYC instead of Charlottesville, but you're talking at LEAST $150k, probably $200k+ after COL and interest is factored in. But I'm a skeptic by nature and I would wager that cost difference that you will succeed at UVa.

[Libya]

Go to UVA.

[plurilingue]

I wouldn’t pay more than ~$90k more for CLS than UVA, and my valuation of a CCN degree vs MVPB is evidently much higher than most. I would see what CLS/NYU/UChi offer you, but in all likelihood take the money at UVA. It’s a very good school and whatever opportunities you may be losing are easily worth $200k.

[Throwaway5818]

Take the money and run, OP. UVA and Columbia are peers if you're not trying to climb the NYC Vault list.

[dabigchina]

UVA and its not even close.

For what it's worth. Columbia is pretty cheap with aid. They refused to even match NYU for me, so I would assume that CLS will be slightly more expensive than Chicago/NYU.

[logan3000]

also for what it’s worth, CLS gave me more aid than NYU without any negotiation