Top Law Schools

I am sorry that this is yet again another post to get advice between these schools, but I thought it would be helpful since others are a few years old.

As of now, I am deciding between these two schools (also waitlisted at CU, UMN and Denver).

Important notes:
-going for environmental law
-avid outdoorsman
-moving from the East Coast
-leaning towards Public Interest Law, not ruling out corporate as a SA or post-grad if grades/ranking permit
-would like to get a joint Masters degree
-aiming to live out there permanently, declaring residency when I arrive.

Lewis & Clark Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year with good academic standing stipulation
-I love Portland as a city and the close distance to Mt. Hood
-better faculty/student ratio
-good resources
-most of the legal jobs are in Portland
-good clinical/center programs
-#1 environmental law rank

Cons:
-fairly expensive
-cost of living in the area is higher than Eugene
-no option of joint masters degree
-no in-state tuition

Oregon Pros/Cons:
Pros:
-offered me $10,000 per year, plus an addition $10,000 for 1L year
-Eugene is a great town, college atmosphere--something I am used to and don't mind
-#5 environmental law program
-Option for a joint Masters in Environmental Studies degree
-much lower cost of living
-fewer students in 1L than LC
-eligible for in-state tuition for 2L, 3L

Cons:
-higher faculty/student ratio
-fewer clinics
-2 hours from Portland

Please, do not mention overall cost or compare the cost to "quality of education". I know my financials and am comfortable with paying for the remainder of tuition out of pocket. I am simply looking for advice on the schools, which is better, employment, quality of life, etc. Any input from former/current students would be great. Also, I've done my fair share of research on the employment market/statistics from each school and know what I am getting into, but and thoughts are still welcomed.

Thanks!

Celena wrote:I am sorry that this is yet again another post to get advice between these schools, but I thought it would be helpful since others are a few years old.
...

Lewis & Clark Pros/Cons:
Pros:

63% of graduates have long-term, full-time legal jobs after graduation.

Celena wrote:Cons:

37% of graduates don't.

Celena wrote: Oregon Pros/Cons:
Pros:

57% of graduates have long-term, full-time legal jobs after graduation.

Celena wrote:Cons:

43% don't


Seriously, for either school you are looking at a more than one in three chance of not having a decent lawyer job after spending three years tuition (maybe more if you throw in a masters). Have you found anyone practicing in the sort of job you would like who graduated from either school? Talk to them about how they got where they did, and whether they would recommend their alma mater if they were starting out today.

Celena wrote:Please, do not mention overall cost or compare the cost to "quality of education".

No one who knows what they're talking about will try and compare the educational quality of law schools. They will, however, compare employment outcomes, which is the only thing you didn't list for each school.

Literally every factor you listed shouldn't be something you consider or should be, at most, a tertiary consideration when picking a law school. Your first and primary concern should be your debt at graduation compared to your job prospects.

In general, you shouldn't be considering any of these schools without a full scholarship. My guess is that you can achieve that with a better LSAT, so what are your current numbers?

I think when you're considering all the pros/cons you list for the two schools, they're purely subjective factors and no one can really tell you how to weigh them. Like proximity to Mt Hood - for some people that could be crucial, for lots of people it won't matter. Or the master's in environmental science - why do you want one and what do you want to do with it? if you actually have a concrete reason for wanting one, that could make a difference, but it's still a subjective thing.

I can weigh in to the extent that I can say you're probably better off at whichever school will give you more opportunity to network and get experience and become part of the local legal community, because that's going to be crucial to getting a job. So maybe L&C because it's in Portland. But if it's going to be a lot more expensive, that may not be worth it.

I don't think number of clinics is really a thing to worry about - you can only do one or maybe two, and getting experience with real-world employers is your first choice anyway. Faculty/student ratio isn't generally that important either.

I will agree with the others weighing in that job prospects and costs are the most important things to consider. One reason why that's the case is that law school curriculum is very standardized (it has to be because it's preparing you for professional licensure), so there are actually few meaningful differences between actual educational opportunities at different institutions. You're going to be able to take all the courses relevant to environmental law at both of those schools. There can be some differences between teaching more critical analysis skills vs. teaching black letter law as you from the top of the rankings to the bottoms, but those 2 schools are comparable enough, there isn't going to be a big difference between them. There are good profs (and bad profs) at all law schools.

Culture can be different at different institutions, but I think the best way to judge that is visit for yourself, because what I like in a law school culture may not be what you liked. (For ex I visited L&C and didn't like it, but that's me, not you, plus it was years ago and I didn't go there because it wasn't the best economic/employment option, not because of the culture.)

Anecdotally, the PNW and Portland specifically are incredibly insular. Going to school there can help establish ties and so on, but it's a small and desirable market. So that's important to consider when you're considering how much to spend to go to school there.

The employment prospects at either of these schools scares the living heck out of me. The chance of getting no job at all is enormous. Not to mention the number of students who wind up underemployed or at jobs paying peanuts. That doesn't mean every graduate is signing up for a life of poverty and misery -- but going to these either school stacks the deck against you.

The quality of life is a question of personal taste. I don't think many people on this forum will have personal experience with either of these schools, and it really boils down to what you enjoy in your downtime.

In terms of employment, maybe somebody at a small Portland firm doing environmental law would have meaningful feedback to give you on employment (it can't hurt to try cold-calling somebody or trying to find an alumni of one of these schools to ping). Unless you are graduating as one of the top few students in the class, it will be all about networking and personal connections if you want to find a decent job.