Memphis Vs. Ole Miss Forum

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Ole Miss or University of Memphis

Poll ended at Fri May 31, 2019 10:05 pm

Ole Miss
2
50%
Memphis
2
50%
 
Total votes: 4

outlaw-_-

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Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:05 pm

Hello. Been ghosting on here for a little while and have always found good insights on here. Ill try and make this quick.

Currently a 26 year old unmarried no kids having Police Officer from Middle TN.
From a Army family so I've lived all over and comfortable with moving for a future job.
My B.S. from MTSU was in Criminal Justice and Homeland Sec. Minors in Poli Sci and Psych
3.2 GPA 155 LSAT
Non-Law Enforcement dreams include Sports/Entertainment Management and Legal/Security consulting for a Pro Sports team or something in that realm.
If I stick to Law enforcement the I might try to get hired with the feds or go military in the Jag Corps.

I got accepted into Memphis and Ole Miss and Ole Miss has its seat deposit due April 1.

Memphis is 19.5k a year with a 10 year scholarship
Ole Miss is 35K a year with a 21k a year OOS tuition scholarship will turn into 15k a year after getting residency.

given all this Info does either school stand out as an obvious pick. Ole Miss is ranked higher on US news (108) than Memphis (138) , and Ole Miss has a Sports and Entertainment Law certificate.
Memphis 5k slightly cheaper, a TN school so maybe its name carries better if i return to TN after school? They're about the same distance from each other from Nashville and my folks all live in TN right now.

I've visited Memphis before but not the law school. I'm going to Ole Miss Friday for the admitted students day.

Assuming the visit goes well Whats your say? Or if you've got experience with either or both schools I'd love to hear what you have to say.
thank you for your thoughts and input

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cavalier1138

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:50 am

Your long-term goals don't include being a lawyer. Don't go to law school.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:56 am

cavalier1138 wrote:Your long-term goals don't include being a lawyer. Don't go to law school.
Would JAG not qualify as Lawyering?
I can't do that without going to law school

Also I'm not naive to think that to get to where I even want to be, for the other career prospect, that practicing as a public defender or a DA isn't going to happen if I was fortunate enough for that kind of job to be open and available .

I'm going to LS now while I'm still young and without dependents.
Alot of people in law enforcement say theyll do it and 10, 15,20,30 years go by and the chance passes them. When I'm ready to make the transition from chasing after bad guys, I'll be ready as opposed to having to go to school then.
Thanks for the answer to the original question.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:05 am

cavalier1138 wrote:Your long-term goals don't include being a lawyer. Don't go to law school.
Would JAG not qualify as Lawyering?
I can't do that without going to law school

Also I'm not naive to think that to get to where I even want to be, for the other career prospect, that practicing as a public defender or a DA isn't going to happen if I was fortunate enough for that kind of job to be open and available .

I'm going to LS now while I'm still young and without dependents.
Alot of people in law enforcement say theyll do it and 10, 15,20,30 years go by and the chance passes them. When I'm ready to make the transition from chasing after bad guys, I'll be ready as opposed to having to go to school then.
Thanks for the answer to the original question.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by nixy » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:49 am

Are you suggesting that you’d go to law school now but continue in law enforcement for 10 more years until you get tired of chasing bad guys? That doesn’t make sense and is a bad idea. Go to law school when you want to become a lawyer. The chance doesn’t “pass you by.”

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cavalier1138

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:22 am

nixy wrote:Are you suggesting that you’d go to law school now but continue in law enforcement for 10 more years until you get tired of chasing bad guys? That doesn’t make sense and is a bad idea. Go to law school when you want to become a lawyer. The chance doesn’t “pass you by.”
This. It would be extremely difficult to enter practice in that scenario. You can't get a JD, take a few years off, then start practicing law. It doesn't work like that.

But to respond to this specific question:
outlaw-_- wrote:Would JAG not qualify as Lawyering?
I ignored JAG because it was an outlier career goal that would be extremely unlikely for you. What's more interesting to me is that you wrote off DA/PD jobs as too difficult to get compared to JAG. JAG is extremely competitive, and while some local prosecution/defense gigs are harder to get than others, those are totally reasonable career goals for graduates of regional schools. So if that's your goal, retake the LSAT to get a better scholarship offer at a decent regional school where you want to practice.

The only caveat to this is that there's no way in hell most PD offices are going to hire an ex-cop, but there are plenty of local prosecutor's offices in need of ADAs. The only thing that would take those jobs out of your reach is taking years to enter practice after you get your JD.

Your other listed career goals (which didn't include local prosecution in your initial post) are not for lawyers. JDs are useful for lawyers, period.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:14 am

nixy wrote:Are you suggesting that you’d go to law school now but continue in law enforcement for 10 more years until you get tired of chasing bad guys? That doesn’t make sense and is a bad idea. Go to law school when you want to become a lawyer. The chance doesn’t “pass you by.”
Thank you for your response.

And Im suggesting that if attaining the law degree led to opportunities in law enforcement especially in the administrative/investigateive level I would be open to it. I've seen it happen for many people at various law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level. Is it common? No probably not but it's not bad to wanna attain the uncommon.

The pass you by statement is certainly an over generalization on my part. Surely I can't base things on other people's experiences who failed to prepare themselves to go to school. I think what I was getting at is that 26 with no family and not to deep in my current department might be easier than 36 with a family and 13 years in. But maybe I'm wrong and that's why I'm here. I definitely appreciate your input and and open to criticism.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by QContinuum » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:19 pm

outlaw-_- wrote:
nixy wrote:Are you suggesting that you’d go to law school now but continue in law enforcement for 10 more years until you get tired of chasing bad guys? That doesn’t make sense and is a bad idea. Go to law school when you want to become a lawyer. The chance doesn’t “pass you by.”
Thank you for your response.

And Im suggesting that if attaining the law degree led to opportunities in law enforcement especially in the administrative/investigateive level I would be open to it. I've seen it happen for many people at various law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level. Is it common? No probably not but it's not bad to wanna attain the uncommon.
Is the "uncommon" (to use your own words) scenario of a J.D. Advantage boost to your career worth committing yourself to repaying $105k plus interest out of your post-tax income? You'd have to make $150k+ in gross income to pay off that $105k plus interest. And even then, you'd just have paid off your loans - you'd still be financially behind (relative to the no J.D. scenario) due to your foregone earnings. E.g., let's say you're currently making $50k/year. That means that you could've made $150k in three years. Instead, you'll be -$150k in the hole after three years. That's a $300k difference.

Also, does that $105k include your living expenses? If not, you'll need to take out additional loans to cover 3 years' worth of living expenses and health insurance while you attend law school.
outlaw-_- wrote:I think what I was getting at is that 26 with no family and not to deep in my current department might be easier than 36 with a family and 13 years in. But maybe I'm wrong and that's why I'm here. I definitely appreciate your input and and open to criticism.
It might be easier for you to take three years off from the workforce now, but the problem is your J.D. will be "stale" by the time you (might) actually want to use it a decade down the line. No legal employer will hire someone who graduated law school 10 years ago and has never practiced a day of law. That is a ginormous red flag. Legal employers will conclude, rightly or wrongly, that you don't really want to be a lawyer - or, alternately, that you were unable to find a legal job despite your best efforts for 10 years. They will prefer to hire a fresh grad - and trust me, there's no shortage of new J.D.s coming out every year.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by Ohiobumpkin » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:52 pm

You shouldn't go to law school unless you want to be a practicing attorney. Going to law school to advance your non-legal career is not wise. Would you go to medical school if you did not intend to be a doctor? Better to get an MPA, MBA, or MS in criminal justice. If you had to go to law school, I would retake the LSAT until either of the schools you mentioned gave you a full ride.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:06 pm

QContinuum wrote:
outlaw-_- wrote:
nixy wrote:Are you suggesting that you’d go to law school now but continue in law enforcement for 10 more years until you get tired of chasing bad guys? That doesn’t make sense and is a bad idea. Go to law school when you want to become a lawyer. The chance doesn’t “pass you by.”
Thank you for your response.

And Im suggesting that if attaining the law degree led to opportunities in law enforcement especially in the administrative/investigateive level I would be open to it. I've seen it happen for many people at various law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level. Is it common? No probably not but it's not bad to wanna attain the uncommon.
Is the "uncommon" (to use your own words) scenario of a J.D. Advantage boost to your career worth committing yourself to repaying $105k plus interest out of your post-tax income? You'd have to make $150k+ in gross income to pay off that $105k plus interest. And even then, you'd just have paid off your loans - you'd still be financially behind (relative to the no J.D. scenario) due to your foregone earnings. E.g., let's say you're currently making $50k/year. That means that you could've made $150k in three years. Instead, you'll be -$150k in the hole after three years. That's a $300k difference.

Also, does that $105k include your living expenses? If not, you'll need to take out additional loans to cover 3 years' worth of living expenses and health insurance while you attend law school.
outlaw-_- wrote:I think what I was getting at is that 26 with no family and not to deep in my current department might be easier than 36 with a family and 13 years in. But maybe I'm wrong and that's why I'm here. I definitely appreciate your input and and open to criticism.
It might be easier for you to take three years off from the workforce now, but the problem is your J.D. will be "stale" by the time you (might) actually want to use it a decade down the line. No legal employer will hire someone who graduated law school 10 years ago and has never practiced a day of law. That is a ginormous red flag. Legal employers will conclude, rightly or wrongly, that you don't really want to be a lawyer - or, alternately, that you were unable to find a legal job despite your best efforts for 10 years. They will prefer to hire a fresh grad - and trust me, there's no shortage of new J.D.s coming out every year.

Thank you for your response as well.
You certainly making great points although I'm definitely not making 50k a year currently.
I definitely wouldn't pursue law school unless financial aid allowed me to come out on the other end with manageable debt. I know you were probably just spitballing numbers as an example but I don't know how I would end up close to 105 k from school debt alone with the above schools

For example at Ole Miss my first year will be the most expensive because of my out-of-state price eating up most of my scholarship but the next 2 years after the tuition is 15K a year. Given the relatively cheap cost of living and Mississippi, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that coming out with a debt level in the 50k-60k realm is unreasonable. Seeing as I only make about 37 k a year now that's 111k (not accounting for promotions or across the board raises) lost in earnings while in school. Memphis is the same scenario except 5 k a year cheaper)
You're certainly right about the short sidedness of thinking that practicing law post law enforcement being a viable option as you explained it. Appreciate your answers. I know there are things I don't know and need to gain knowledge on in this process.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:52 pm

outlaw-_- wrote:For example at Ole Miss my first year will be the most expensive because of my out-of-state price eating up most of my scholarship but the next 2 years after the tuition is 15K a year. Given the relatively cheap cost of living and Mississippi, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that coming out with a debt level in the 50k-60k realm is unreasonable.


I'm confused by your math here. I was also a little confused by how you framed your COA in the first post, but I think I have it right. Assuming that you have a $21k scholarship off out-of-state tuition (a little over $36k) and then declare residency, you're basically paying $45k total for three years. Mississippi is cheap, but it ain't $5k-a-year cheap. The school says that it puts COL at $17k per year. So you're more likely looking at $90-100k total COA, which would actually be close to $105k after you account for fees and interest. Regardless, $60k is way too optimistic.

But this is all just numbers. What opportunities do you think a JD gives you in your current line of work? For example, if you're earning $37k right now, what do you think you'll be earning with a JD? And what position are you hoping for immediately after graduation?

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:46 pm

I suppose there are financial factors I'm not disclosing due to me not wanting to put that on the internet. But for the sake of answering 60k given my circumstances will be a reasonable expectation. (of debt not what I'll be paying when it's all said and done).

Beyond that no one has given me an answer to the original question of school selection but maybe it was a bad one to begin with. Still appreciate the thoughts and responses. I'll be studying somewhere this fall.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:16 pm

outlaw-_- wrote:Beyond that no one has given me an answer to the original question of school selection but maybe it was a bad one to begin with. Still appreciate the thoughts and responses. I'll be studying somewhere this fall.
Best of luck.

The reason you haven't gotten an answer to your false dichotomy is that no one thinks that committing to studying "somewhere" this fall is a good idea for you.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by Sprinkler » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:24 pm

Try Mississippi College. Good LS. Jackson law firms hire MC grads all the time. Good salary in a low COL area.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:15 pm

Sprinkler wrote:Try Mississippi College. Good LS. Jackson law firms hire MC grads all the time. Good salary in a low COL area.
Good lord, no.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by QContinuum » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:26 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
outlaw-_- wrote:Beyond that no one has given me an answer to the original question of school selection but maybe it was a bad one to begin with. Still appreciate the thoughts and responses. I'll be studying somewhere this fall.
Best of luck.

The reason you haven't gotten an answer to your false dichotomy is that no one thinks that committing to studying "somewhere" this fall is a good idea for you.
We've answered your question, OP. The answer is "neither school." Your goals, which do not involve practicing law in the next decade, do not make attending law school at this time - any law school - a reasonable investment of your time and money.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by Johnnybgoode92 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:27 pm

Best of luck :D I did Memphis on the poll

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by LSATWiz.com » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:12 pm

I've tutored a few people who owned or worked for a family business or legal practice, and either had a guaranteed job or were becoming a lawyer to in-part offset the cost of having to hire attorneys for the family business. Even in the latter situation, it's debatable as to whether that provides a meaningful benefit as they were still assuming they'd be a better attorney for the family business than someone with years of experience practicing that specific type of law. Regardless, it made sense because they were getting full scholarships.

As for the tangential benefit of a law degree for other fields, law school does help you develop skills that could be helpful in other fields to a greater degree than medicine. For instance, you may be better at analyzing data and making prudent business decisions because you think like a lawyer, but such a skill is merely incidental to thinking like a lawyer. Law school is generally a horribly inefficient way of acquiring these skills. It's also quite possible those who succeed outside of law with a law degree by and large would have been just as successful without going to law school. The decision to go to law school can be indicative of initiative and if you show initiative in one situation, you may show it in another. Insofar as using it to get ahead in law enforcement, it's debatable how much of a boost it will really give you. Even there, people who become lawyers are likelier to crave power and authority and those who go into law enforcement are also likelier to crave power and authority so there's always going to be some overlap between the two careers simply by virtue of the tend of person they attract.

Law school is 3 years of work and student loans for skills you'd acquire much more rapidly if you found a mentor. You can just network and try to find a mentor now. To do what you want with a law degree, you'd have to do the same thing while you're in law school. Law school is very valuable if you want to be a lawyer. If you don't, its value is not worth the cost 9 times out of 10.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by beinghuman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:12 am

I think you should sit this year out. Do some research, see if you can find a consulting job without a law degree, maybe retake the LSAT and go from there. But I agree that right now, law school does not seem like the best idea for you.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm

Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by nixy » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:08 pm

outlaw-_- wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm
Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.
Glad that it worked out well for you. Of course, you never raised the possibility of this kind of use of your JD, so it's not surprising no one addressed it, as opposed to continuing on in law enforcement and practicing later in life.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by johndooley » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:20 pm

outlaw-_- wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm
Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.
Awesome! Love a good underdog story. Why’d you turn down the big firm offer?

Also we are all thinking it, how were those Southern gals? I’m jealous!

If you’re ever in Orlando let me know, you seem like a good dude.

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:30 am

johndooley wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:20 pm
outlaw-_- wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm
Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.
Awesome! Love a good underdog story. Why’d you turn down the big firm offer?

Also we are all thinking it, how were those Southern gals? I’m jealous!

If you’re ever in Orlando let me know, you seem like a good dude.
Wanted to avoid the 80 hour work weeks it was certainly gonna come with. It was in pricey Nashville and woulda paid well, but 20-25 percent less pay for 45-50 percent less hours with more remote work options (and a cheaper Cost of Living as a result) was an easy trade off.

SEC has the Best women but I'll gladly take you up on your offer to hang in ORL

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by outlaw-_- » Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:34 am

nixy wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:08 pm
outlaw-_- wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm
Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.
Glad that it worked out well for you. Of course, you never raised the possibility of this kind of use of your JD, so it's not surprising no one addressed it, as opposed to continuing on in law enforcement and practicing later in life.
This is a fair point. Although the thread pretty much filled up with "Dont go to law school if you don't wanna practice law/be a lawyer. " Law Enforcement was always another backup play which allowed me to thrive and feel less pressured. I knew going in that I had a career to fall back on and to just do my best and be myself in interviews/networking events. I think that took me further than my lsat or gpa ever could. Something no one would have told me on here

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Re: Memphis Vs. Ole Miss

Post by nixy » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:40 am

outlaw-_- wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:34 am
nixy wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:08 pm
outlaw-_- wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:28 pm
Finished Law school. (And it wasn't a T40 :wink: :lol: )

Thank God I did not listen to most the people on here.
Landed a sweet Non traditional Data/Tech compliance Job (JD Preferred)because of the law degree , although the backup JAG was still in play

Minimal/manageable debt Debt due to scholarships the accrued while in school and a nice sized scholarship from a Big Law summer clerkship that turned into an offer . (turned down.)
Avoided COVID 1L because I went ahead and pushed myself and made the jump instead of sitting out a year


Moral of the story. Bet on yourself, carve out you're own path even if others don't have vison and can't see it. Most importantly, don't look for reassurance/advice from randos on the internet. Glad I ultimately didn't and instead used it as motivation.
Glad that it worked out well for you. Of course, you never raised the possibility of this kind of use of your JD, so it's not surprising no one addressed it, as opposed to continuing on in law enforcement and practicing later in life.
This is a fair point. Although the thread pretty much filled up with "Dont go to law school if you don't wanna practice law/be a lawyer. " Law Enforcement was always another backup play which allowed me to thrive and feel less pressured. I knew going in that I had a career to fall back on and to just do my best and be myself in interviews/networking events. I think that took me further than my lsat or gpa ever could. Something no one would have told me on here
That’s fair, not feeling as stressed because you have a backup is definitely helpful. It’s still not a good play to go to law school if you don’t want to be a lawyer, but knowing you don’t *have* to be one is probably good for peace of mind. Plenty of people would consider the prospect of taking on the debt and not getting a new career out of it stressful, though. Depends a lot on personal priorities and comfort level.

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