Top Law Schools

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What are your career goals?

Not enough information in this topic to give a fully informed opinion.

But you don't want Iowa because it's "too close to home?" Really? You're making a decision about a professional school that will lead to your lifelong professional career based on the school's proximity to mom and dad? This is as pointless as people who don't want to go to Northwestern or U Chicago with great scholarships because "they don't like the cold."

Now, deciding here totally depends on your goals. If you're not biglaw-or-bust, then Iowa makes sense because you'll have the freedom and flexibility of no debt. If you want big law, then Vanderbilt makes sense. 35K/year is a decent chunk of money, but you'll still be over 100K in debt for a coin flip's chance at big law. That would be too risky for me to stomach, but it's better than paying sticker.

And I don't think there's enough meaningful differences between Notre Dame and Iowa to differentiate the two on anything other than finances and location. They are peer schools. Personally, I would choose the cheaper school. Both are solid Midwestern schools with big alumni networks and a low percentage chance of landing big law. Both are in secluded college towns (South Bend and Iowa City).

I need COA figures but I think the difference is low enough to justify going to ND or Vandy over Iowa (which would be more limiting).

acr wrote:And I don't think there's enough meaningful differences between Notre Dame and Iowa to differentiate the two on anything other than finances and location. They are peer schools. Personally, I would choose the cheaper school. Both are solid Midwestern schools with big alumni networks and a low percentage chance of landing big law. Both are in secluded college towns (South Bend and Iowa City).

This simply isn't true for the vast majority of students. ND gives you a better shot at Biglaw and more placement opportunities outside the Midwest. Iowa's top 3 destinations in 2016 were Iowa, Illinois, and Minnesota. ND's top 3 destinations were Illinois, NY, and California. Don't attend Iowa unless you're ok working in Iowa or a neighboring state. If you are from Iowa or a neighboring state and want to work in that area for little debt and Iowa offers a full ride, then take that over ND or Vandy. But if you want to work anywhere else and biglaw, Vandy will give you better opportunities. ND for $45K/year is a good deal though, just be prepared to be in the top 1/2 of the class for any shot at biglaw.

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Yeah, not to be too much of a shill for nd, but there is definitely a meaningful difference between nd and iowa, at least with reference to the Chicago market.

That being said, I think vandy is worth 30 more than nd. And im fairly certain you get the unsubsidized stafford no matter where you go.

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REN10330 wrote: Iowa is more of, its too close to home, in that there would be expectations of me from my family which I could not fulfill while being a full time law student. I understand this is a horrible reason not to pick a program I like, but if I want to be successful at this university, it is something that I must keep in mind. I am not big law or bust, which is why money is so important to me, but I do want a federal clerkship after graduation (which I know will be hard regardless of where I go).

Ok, but what are your career goals? Clerkships last for a year or two, and the schools that can get you a federal clerkship are the same schools that can get you biglaw, except federal clerkships are harder to get.

Alright, I stand corrected. NDLS is stronger than Iowa. I was under the impression that they were peers for some reason but it looks like the numbers weigh in ND's favor. My bad

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REN10330 wrote:
Yeah, sorry I always intentionally avoid answering that question, because I feel like on these types of boards my answer gets judged as being to idealistic and unrealistic, are at the very least impractical. I want to be a public defender, which is another reason why money is super important, before maybe transitioning towards a government position.

I've never seen anyone call a career in public defense "unrealistic". I'm not 100% sure a federal clerkship would be all that useful for a public defender, but different offices have different quirks.

Where do you want to work?

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If you want to be in Chicago or midwest, I would go with ND. $45k a year scholarship is solid and ND places the best in Chicago of the three. Obviously if you would rather be in the south then Vandy makes more sense. Iowa at a full ride is hard to turn down, but I would only do that if you are comfortable ending up being a PD in Iowa

If you want to be a PD, I don't think Vandy is worth the extra debt over ND. If you would rather not be a PD in Iowa, then don't go to Iowa.

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ND seems like the right move here. Vandy has a shit LRAP at first glance, and you'd be utilizing LRAP as a PD.

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One word of caution: ND does not have "national" placement power. If you have pre-existing ties to an area, you can probably go back there from ND. But you aren't going to be competitive for spots at PD offices in Georgia, for example.

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cavalier1138 wrote:One word of caution: ND does not have "national" placement power. If you have pre-existing ties to an area, you can probably go back there from ND. But you aren't going to be competitive for spots at PD offices in Georgia, for example.

I think this is true, but I sometimes wonder if that isn't the case for many T14 schools as well. I went to ND and returned home to work in biglaw (secondary market). However, I feel it is impossible to get hired in my market unless you have ties here, even if you come from a T14.

TirantMartorell wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:One word of caution: ND does not have "national" placement power. If you have pre-existing ties to an area, you can probably go back there from ND. But you aren't going to be competitive for spots at PD offices in Georgia, for example.

I think this is true, but I sometimes wonder if that isn't the case for many T14 schools as well. I went to ND and returned home to work in biglaw (secondary market). However, I feel it is impossible to get hired in my market unless you have ties here, even if you come from a T14.

This is definitely the case for T14s. If you have strong ties to a secondary market then a T14 will likely help you get back (without the stellar grades that you would need at a local school). But if you have no connection to that market, then the firms there probably will want nothing to do with you.

TirantMartorell wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:One word of caution: ND does not have "national" placement power. If you have pre-existing ties to an area, you can probably go back there from ND. But you aren't going to be competitive for spots at PD offices in Georgia, for example.

I think this is true, but I sometimes wonder if that isn't the case for many T14 schools as well. I went to ND and returned home to work in biglaw
(secondary market). However, I feel it is impossible to get hired in my market unless you have ties here, even if you come from a T14.

It really depends on the market. Chicago/LA firms really couldn't care less about pre-existing ties if you're applying from a good school. But Houston firms might care a lot.

However, when it comes to PI work, T13 students can get positions at a lot of competitive jobs, even if they don't have ties to that specific area.