Northwestern vs. Cornell?
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:05 am
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Thank you for the reply!My goal is just Biglaw wherever. Why is it hard for an international student to get Chicago Biglaw?eminentdomain wrote:
Is your goal Chicago Biglaw? If so, then NU>>>Cornell.
Given the fact that you are an international student though, it will be hard for you to get Chicago Biglaw and NYC will be your best bet. Cornell > NU in NYC and in that case NU is probably not worth 15k more IMO.
Chicago firms care about ties and tend to be more conservative. With good grades you could get Chicago Biglaw but it's just a lot harder than NYC.symphonyy wrote:My goal is just Biglaw wherever. Why is it hard for an international student to get Chicago Biglaw?eminentdomain wrote:
Is your goal Chicago Biglaw? If so, then NU>>>Cornell.
Given the fact that you are an international student though, it will be hard for you to get Chicago Biglaw and NYC will be your best bet. Cornell > NU in NYC and in that case NU is probably not worth 15k more IMO.
If OP does in fact look to return to his/her home country, this might not be the case.eminentdomain wrote:There is virtually no difference between NU and Cornell with respect to prestige/ranking.
Yeah I missed that part. Go to the Ivy League school then.tyrant_flycatcher wrote:If OP does in fact look to return to his/her home country, this might not be the case.eminentdomain wrote:There is virtually no difference between NU and Cornell with respect to prestige/ranking.
As an international student, you'd almost certainly be relying on an H1-B visa to work in the United States. Biglaw firms are typically the only legal employers willing to incur the costs associated with hiring you. Thus, your aim should be to work at a biglaw firm (which you are correctly aiming for).symphonyy wrote:Thank you for the reply!My goal is just Biglaw wherever. Why is it hard for an international student to get Chicago Biglaw?eminentdomain wrote:
Is your goal Chicago Biglaw? If so, then NU>>>Cornell.
Given the fact that you are an international student though, it will be hard for you to get Chicago Biglaw and NYC will be your best bet. Cornell > NU in NYC and in that case NU is probably not worth 15k more IMO.
Agree with all of this.cheaptilts wrote:I would probably take Cornell here, but you wouldn't be foolish whatsoever to take NU. Also, "Ivy League" prestige is meaningless in the legal field.
thank you for your input. it really helps a lot. one more question, if the scholarship amounts were the same, still Cornell?cheaptilts wrote:As an international student, you'd almost certainly be relying on an H1-B visa to work in the United States. Biglaw firms are typically the only legal employers willing to incur the costs associated with hiring you. Thus, your aim should be to work at a biglaw firm (which you are correctly aiming for).symphonyy wrote:Thank you for the reply!My goal is just Biglaw wherever. Why is it hard for an international student to get Chicago Biglaw?eminentdomain wrote:
Is your goal Chicago Biglaw? If so, then NU>>>Cornell.
Given the fact that you are an international student though, it will be hard for you to get Chicago Biglaw and NYC will be your best bet. Cornell > NU in NYC and in that case NU is probably not worth 15k more IMO.
NYC has many more "biglaw" offices than Chicago. NY offices also extend more offers of employment than their Chi counterparts. Both of those facts should make you lean toward you targeting the NYC market. Cities like Chicago also tend to place at least some weight on a person's "ties" to the market. New York does not.
It's also true that non-NYC firms sometimes have policies that are less "H1-B friendly" than others. For example, some of the major D.C.- and Boston-headquartered biglaw firms refuse to (a) apply for the H1-B lottery on behalf of a student during the Spring of the student's 3L [basically denying the student a chance at "two bites" at the lottery apple"]; and (b) guarantee an opportunity to work at a foreign office in case the student strikes out from the lottery. Firms centered around the NY market often have much more experience with foreign workers and, in some cases, are more willing to work with them.
I would probably take Cornell here, but you wouldn't be foolish whatsoever to take NU. Also, "Ivy League" prestige is meaningless in the legal field.
Since nobody's addressed this yet, your concern with it being harder to socialize is unfounded. Your age won't be an issue unless you make it an issue. I started law school at Cornell at 25. Nobody cared. Even the people pushing 30 had no problems socializing. Besides, average starting age will be around 24.symphonyy wrote:What i like about Cornell: well its the Ivy League.. if it means anything. higher employment rate
Why i hesitate: NU is higher in ranking, pricey tuition, and im guessing most students will be younger than me so hard to socialize..?
thanks for your input. are you happy with your choice at Cornell? i have talked to several NU alumni but none from Cornell, so i have a bit biased feelings about Cornell. Is it really a hell to live in Ithaca? and is it true that students at Cornell have nothing to do except to study really hard and contribute to competitive environment..?Lavitz wrote:Since nobody's addressed this yet, your concern with it being harder to socialize is unfounded. Your age won't be an issue unless you make it an issue. I started law school at Cornell at 25. Nobody cared. Even the people pushing 30 had no problems socializing. Besides, average starting age will be around 24.symphonyy wrote:What i like about Cornell: well its the Ivy League.. if it means anything. higher employment rate
Why i hesitate: NU is higher in ranking, pricey tuition, and im guessing most students will be younger than me so hard to socialize..?
Also, as others have said, the USNWR ranking is meaningless.
No and nosymphonyy wrote:thanks for your input. are you happy with your choice at Cornell? i have talked to several NU alumni but none from Cornell, so i have a bit biased feelings about Cornell. Is it really a hell to live in Ithaca? and is it true that students at Cornell have nothing to do except to study really hard and contribute to competitive environment..?Lavitz wrote:Since nobody's addressed this yet, your concern with it being harder to socialize is unfounded. Your age won't be an issue unless you make it an issue. I started law school at Cornell at 25. Nobody cared. Even the people pushing 30 had no problems socializing. Besides, average starting age will be around 24.symphonyy wrote:What i like about Cornell: well its the Ivy League.. if it means anything. higher employment rate
Why i hesitate: NU is higher in ranking, pricey tuition, and im guessing most students will be younger than me so hard to socialize..?
Also, as others have said, the USNWR ranking is meaningless.
I would have to disagree here given my own personal experience in finding employment during and after law school. The ivy name opened doors, and I was told so by those doing the hiring.cheaptilts wrote:I would probably take Cornell here, but you wouldn't be foolish whatsoever to take NU. Also, "Ivy League" prestige is meaningless in the legal field.
To your first question: Yes. I have no regrets about choosing it over "higher-ranked" schools.symphonyy wrote:thanks for your input. are you happy with your choice at Cornell? i have talked to several NU alumni but none from Cornell, so i have a bit biased feelings about Cornell. Is it really a hell to live in Ithaca? and is it true that students at Cornell have nothing to do except to study really hard and contribute to competitive environment..?
Whoa your reply definitely blew away all of the concerns I had. I guess I took in too much biased info and was weighing my options based on that.Lavitz wrote:To your first question: Yes. I have no regrets about choosing it over "higher-ranked" schools.symphonyy wrote:thanks for your input. are you happy with your choice at Cornell? i have talked to several NU alumni but none from Cornell, so i have a bit biased feelings about Cornell. Is it really a hell to live in Ithaca? and is it true that students at Cornell have nothing to do except to study really hard and contribute to competitive environment..?
To your second question: Not really. The weather is the worst thing about it. The winter will be cold, and it rains / snows more than average. But I thought it was nice otherwise. Certainly wasn't hell.
To your third question: No. Most people do study hard, at least in 1L, but there's always time for fun. My social calendar was booked every weekend during the first half of each semester in 1L. I also wouldn't characterize the environment as competitive. If you freak out when you see people studying a lot, and try and out-study them, that's on you. There's no actual competitive behavior. Finally, this may be overkill, but here's a non-exhaustive list of things law students do in Ithaca other than study:
- drinking at house parties, bar tabs, formal events, mixers, a beer pong tournament, etc.
- wine tours
- intramural soccer, volleyball, any other sport your classmates can get a team together for
- there is a squash court in the law school
- there is a bowling alley on North Campus
- hiking, running, etc.
- dragonboating on the lake
- skiing
- section potlucks
- trivia nights
- karaoke
- horseback riding class, golf class, wines class
- some law school version of this game
- since you mentioned it, yes, there's a theater
I really think this is a stretch.luckyirish13 wrote:Based on the fact that you're considering returning to your home country, I think Cornell probably stands a better chance of making a difference for you. I'm not certain what the international prestige is for American law schools, but I would assume there is a certain gravitas awarded to an Ivy League school, that wouldn't be there for Northwestern. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Being "Ivy League" isn't normally a consideration in the legal world if you're working in the States, but if you're returning home or going to another country, the equation changes, since you'll want your university to be recognizable. Also your scholarship to Cornell is better so that should make this easier.
Oh and no need to worry about the USNWR rankings for these two. They're basically the same in terms of rankings anyway.
Maybe, but OP is trying to differentiate between two very closely ranked schools. He (or she I can't tell) hasn't listed a preference between Chicago or NYC, although he slightly expressed doubts about Chicago. He/she has a better scholarship at Cornell, which helps so his siblings don't have to bear a bigger financial burden. Northwestern is potentially better in terms of culture, although that's uncertain.star fox wrote:I really think this is a stretch.luckyirish13 wrote:Based on the fact that you're considering returning to your home country, I think Cornell probably stands a better chance of making a difference for you. I'm not certain what the international prestige is for American law schools, but I would assume there is a certain gravitas awarded to an Ivy League school, that wouldn't be there for Northwestern. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Being "Ivy League" isn't normally a consideration in the legal world if you're working in the States, but if you're returning home or going to another country, the equation changes, since you'll want your university to be recognizable. Also your scholarship to Cornell is better so that should make this easier.
Oh and no need to worry about the USNWR rankings for these two. They're basically the same in terms of rankings anyway.
Makes sense. That explains why so many legal employers prefer Cornell grads to Stanford grads.Apsara wrote:I would have to disagree here given my own personal experience in finding employment during and after law school. The ivy name opened doors, and I was told so by those doing the hiring.cheaptilts wrote:I would probably take Cornell here, but you wouldn't be foolish whatsoever to take NU. Also, "Ivy League" prestige is meaningless in the legal field.
If I go to NU, I still have chance to work in the NYC right? But would the chance be lower than if I chose Cornell?cheaptilts wrote:As an international student, you'd almost certainly be relying on an H1-B visa to work in the United States. Biglaw firms are typically the only legal employers willing to incur the costs associated with hiring you. Thus, your aim should be to work at a biglaw firm (which you are correctly aiming for).symphonyy wrote:Thank you for the reply!My goal is just Biglaw wherever. Why is it hard for an international student to get Chicago Biglaw?eminentdomain wrote:
Is your goal Chicago Biglaw? If so, then NU>>>Cornell.
Given the fact that you are an international student though, it will be hard for you to get Chicago Biglaw and NYC will be your best bet. Cornell > NU in NYC and in that case NU is probably not worth 15k more IMO.
NYC has many more "biglaw" offices than Chicago. NY offices also extend more offers of employment than their Chi counterparts. Both of those facts should make you lean toward you targeting the NYC market. Cities like Chicago also tend to place at least some weight on a person's "ties" to the market. New York does not.
It's also true that non-NYC firms sometimes have policies that are less "H1-B friendly" than others. For example, some of the major D.C.- and Boston-headquartered biglaw firms refuse to (a) apply for the H1-B lottery on behalf of a student during the Spring of the student's 3L [basically denying the student a chance at "two bites" at the lottery apple"]; and (b) guarantee an opportunity to work at a foreign office in case the student strikes out from the lottery. Firms centered around the NY market often have much more experience with foreign workers and, in some cases, are more willing to work with them.
I would probably take Cornell here, but you wouldn't be foolish whatsoever to take NU. Also, "Ivy League" prestige is meaningless in the legal field.