Top Law Schools

Hi all,

Thanks for any advice in advance! I'd like to clerk then practice biglaw in Texas where I have good ties. If I can't clerk, I want to go straight to Texas (Dallas).

I have about $60k saved that I can put toward my COA, everything else will be paid for by loans. I'm URM (Mex) with a 171/3.45/great softs. Taken the LSAT twice. Waitlisted at Harvard, Chicago, Penn, and Michigan.

I think I would love Greenwich, really like Charlottesville/Austin, and not hate Durham/St. Louis.

NYU gave me a solid scholarship and they're ranked the highest, but they don't place well in Texas at all. Their career services office basically said I'd have to do some legwork to work in that market, but that they have a strong alumni base there. UVA places great in Texas, Duke is pretty good too, and WUSTL is alright.

NYU: Cost of attendance ~$270k -$52,000 scholarship over three years = $290k payback over 10 year standard repayment plan after scholarship. (71% biglaw+clerk)

UVA: Cost of attendance ~$240k -$54,000 scholarship over three years = $247k payback. (80% biglaw+clerk)

Duke: Cost of attendance ~$250k -$72,000 scholarship over three years = $238k payback. (80% biglaw+clerk)

Texas: Cost of attendance ~$221k -$80,000 scholarship over three years = $188k payback. (46% biglaw+clerk)

WUSTL: Cost of attendance ~$230k -full ride = $78k payback. (48% biglaw+clerk)

I'd love to hear where you think I should go and why! Thanks so much!

You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

As it stands, would probably take Duke.

Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

OneHandedEconomist wrote:Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

If OP wants biglaw in texas, then WUSTL is objectively an awful choice

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

If OP wants biglaw in texas, then WUSTL is objectively an awful choice

Tbh I skimmed and skipped that part.

Ok, if OP wants Texas than UT is the way to go. Sure, he can get it from Duke/UVA, but why pay a premium for a similar shot?

OneHandedEconomist wrote:

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

If OP wants biglaw in texas, then WUSTL is objectively an awful choice

Tbh I skimmed and skipped that part.

Ok, if OP wants Texas than UT is the way to go. Sure, he can get it from Duke/UVA, but why pay a premium for a similar shot?

I agree. OP needs to negotiate with UT. If UT says no, then Duke is the right answer. If UT gives OP a full ride, then UT is the right answer. This one seems pretty cut and dry to me.

grades?? wrote:You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

kingpin101 wrote:As it stands, would probably take Duke.

Why's that? Lowest cost with still decent employment prospects?

TBH I think duke is worth 40k more than UT, especially if OP wants to clerk. I wouldn't pay more for uva than duke though.

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

If OP wants biglaw in texas, then WUSTL is objectively an awful choice

Tbh I skimmed and skipped that part.

Ok, if OP wants Texas than UT is the way to go. Sure, he can get it from Duke/UVA, but why pay a premium for a similar shot?

I agree. OP needs to negotiate with UT. If UT says no, then Duke is the right answer. If UT gives OP a full ride, then UT is the right answer. This one seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

Why Duke over UVA? UVA is ranked higher and basically the same cost?

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:Gotta go with WUSTL here, especially given their recent employment figures.

If OP wants biglaw in texas, then WUSTL is objectively an awful choice

Tbh I skimmed and skipped that part.

Ok, if OP wants Texas than UT is the way to go. Sure, he can get it from Duke/UVA, but why pay a premium for a similar shot?

I agree. OP needs to negotiate with UT. If UT says no, then Duke is the right answer. If UT gives OP a full ride, then UT is the right answer. This one seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

Why Duke over UVA? UVA is ranked higher and basically the same cost?

It's not that duke is better than uva, I just don't see a reason to pay 10k more for uva over duke.

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

grades?? wrote:You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

I would email them with the WUSTL offer and the Duke and UVA offer and say you will attend with a full ride, but no less. If not, you will not attend. At least motivate them.

Duke has the best employment stats and is the cheapest out of the t13 options. Also, Duke does really well in texas. Every single person I know at Duke who wanted Texas got it, even the people without any ties. I know a median Duke student who had literally never been in Texas, no ties to Texas, got biglaw in Texas. Duke does surprisingly well for Texas. I would take UT at a full ride for Texas obviously, but if not, Duke is the right answer.

Duke has better employment stats than UVA, smaller class size, and sends more kids to Texas. There is no reason to choose UVA here.

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

kingpin101 wrote:As it stands, would probably take Duke.

Why's that? Lowest cost with still decent employment prospects?

Process of elimination. UVA is out b/c there is not reason to pay more for it than Duke. NYU is out b/c it's not worth much more than Duke for TX biglaw. WUSTL is out b/c it will not get you TX biglaw very well, if at all. And finally, for me UT is out b/c unlike the other schools it won't give you a fallback option in case you end up median pwned.

Also, Duke is killing it these days with biglaw placement.

kingpin101 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

kingpin101 wrote:As it stands, would probably take Duke.

Why's that? Lowest cost with still decent employment prospects?

Process of elimination. UVA is out b/c there is not reason to pay more for it than Duke. NYU is out b/c it's not worth much more than Duke for TX biglaw. WUSTL is out b/c it will not get you TX biglaw very well, if at all. And finally, for me UT is out b/c unlike the other schools it won't give you a fallback option in case you end up median pwned.

Also, Duke is killing it these days with biglaw placement.

And clerkship placement too. OP go look at the stats. The only t13 schools that might place more into biglaw + clerkships than Duke is Columbia/Chicago. Not too shabby. Duke's BL+Clerk #s literally beat every other t13, including YHS, UVA, Michigan, Upenn, on and on.

TLS_Dreamer wrote:
Why Duke over UVA? UVA is ranked higher and basically the same cost?

Just so you know, [specific] US News rankings really only matter to 0Ls. No one making hiring decisions will think "...but UVA is ranked higher than Duke!" when making a decision. They're peers.

grades?? wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

grades?? wrote:You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

I would email them with the WUSTL offer and the Duke and UVA offer and say you will attend with a full ride, but no less. If not, you will not attend. At least motivate them.

Duke has the best employment stats and is the cheapest out of the t13 options. Also, Duke does really well in texas. Every single person I know at Duke who wanted Texas got it, even the people without any ties. I know a median Duke student who had literally never been in Texas, no ties to Texas, got biglaw in Texas. Duke does surprisingly well for Texas. I would take UT at a full ride for Texas obviously, but if not, Duke is the right answer.

Duke has better employment stats than UVA, smaller class size, and sends more kids to Texas. There is no reason to choose UVA here.

Idk, what if OP likes softball?

OneHandedEconomist wrote:

grades?? wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

grades?? wrote:You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

I would email them with the WUSTL offer and the Duke and UVA offer and say you will attend with a full ride, but no less. If not, you will not attend. At least motivate them.

Duke has the best employment stats and is the cheapest out of the t13 options. Also, Duke does really well in texas. Every single person I know at Duke who wanted Texas got it, even the people without any ties. I know a median Duke student who had literally never been in Texas, no ties to Texas, got biglaw in Texas. Duke does surprisingly well for Texas. I would take UT at a full ride for Texas obviously, but if not, Duke is the right answer.

Duke has better employment stats than UVA, smaller class size, and sends more kids to Texas. There is no reason to choose UVA here.

Idk, what if OP likes softball?

2 years ago Duke won the softball tournament at UVA. UVA has no prestige left.

Edit: and I believe that tournament is currently going on right now. The Duke team has multiple d1 college baseball players on the team, including a guy who spent some time in the minors. They have another great chance to rub Duke's excellence into UVA's prestigeless faces

grades?? wrote:

OneHandedEconomist wrote:

grades?? wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote:

grades?? wrote:You need to negotiate with UT. There is no reason you shouldn't be going for free. Once its free, that seems like the obvious choice.

I asked UT to increase their offer, and they increased it by $2k/year to this current offer. I was pretty disappointed...

I would email them with the WUSTL offer and the Duke and UVA offer and say you will attend with a full ride, but no less. If not, you will not attend. At least motivate them.

Duke has the best employment stats and is the cheapest out of the t13 options. Also, Duke does really well in texas. Every single person I know at Duke who wanted Texas got it, even the people without any ties. I know a median Duke student who had literally never been in Texas, no ties to Texas, got biglaw in Texas. Duke does surprisingly well for Texas. I would take UT at a full ride for Texas obviously, but if not, Duke is the right answer.

Duke has better employment stats than UVA, smaller class size, and sends more kids to Texas. There is no reason to choose UVA here.

Idk, what if OP likes softball?

2 years ago Duke won the softball tournament at UVA. UVA has no prestige left.

Psh, Duke Law is known for bowling and nothing else.

There seems to be this myth that once you try negotiating once then the ship has sailed. That's simply not true. If there's a number that UT could give you that would cause you to withdraw your other apps and attend you should call, explain your situation, and ask for that deal. It's the next logical step in the negotiation. What's the worst that could happen? They say no?

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far! I'm kind of surprised to hear everyone say Duke over UVA since the cost is so similar. Why is Duke ranked below Penn and UVA? Are there any downsides to Duke? Small class size?

And thanks for the UT negotiating advice. They say they only let you negotiate once so I think that scares people like me away. They increased from $74k to $80k, so I don't think it's likely they'll come up to a full ride...but you're right in that I might as well try!

TLS_Dreamer wrote:Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far! I'm kind of surprised to hear everyone say Duke over UVA since the cost is so similar. Why is Duke ranked below Penn and UVA? Are there any downsides to Duke? Small class size?

And thanks for the UT negotiating advice. They say they only let you negotiate once so I think that scares people like me away. They increased from $74k to $80k, so I don't think it's likely they'll come up to a full ride...but you're right in that I might as well try!

Usnews rankings are silly. They take into account for example how many books your library has. UVA and duke are peer schools. Duke has better employment numbers, clerkship numbers, and places better than UVA in Texas. There is literally no reason not to choose Duke in this case.

TLS_Dreamer wrote:Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far! I'm kind of surprised to hear everyone say Duke over UVA since the cost is so similar. Why is Duke ranked below Penn and UVA? Are there any downsides to Duke? Small class size?

And thanks for the UT negotiating advice. They say they only let you negotiate once so I think that scares people like me away. They increased from $74k to $80k, so I don't think it's likely they'll come up to a full ride...but you're right in that I might as well try!

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... int=9d0608

If you look at the methodology, you'll find a lot of things that probably don't matter to you/shouldn't matter to students. Also, there's a lot of funky weighting. I wouldn't place too much stock, if any at all, into these rankings.

Okay, thanks. Why do people pay attention to US News at all instead of just straight employment stats in what they're interested in?

Let's not go overboard here. UVA and Duke are peer schools, and in most respects equal. The reason why Duke is the clear choice here is that it's 10k less.