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UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:03 pm
by jdotl
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Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:08 pm
by existentialcrisis
jdotl wrote:UNC v W&L
for D.C. BigLaw in Corporate Law
Please assume scholly & COA are identical and I do not care for the location of either. I am solely interested in the realistic D.C. BigLaw placement for the two schools upon graduation and possibly during 1L/2L summers. Stats are pretty similar so it's really difficult to choose.
Neither have anything remoltely resembling realistic D.C. Biglaw placement. D.C. can be very tough even from T14s.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:15 pm
by Dr. Nefario
BigLaw from either of these is only roughly 1 in 5 chance and DC (not necessarily biglaw) from either is only 1 in 10. Your chances are about the same from both the schools. Realistically, neither is a even remotely good option for DC biglaw, but if you must choose among them, go to the cheaper one.
ETA: GMU is objectively the best choice for ending up in DC, so what reasons eliminated it?
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:16 pm
by cavalier1138
jdotl wrote:
I already know that both schools are not ideal for D.C. BigLaw. So please refrain from any negativity.
So in other words, "Here's minimal information about my options. Please validate my poor decisions."
What is your actual COA for all these schools? Having "identical" COAs is meaningless if that means both schools are stupidly expensive for their likely outcomes.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:20 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Both are bad options. I spend my 2L summer in a DC big law firm and never met anyone from either of these schools, even when we did events with other DC big law firms. There was one summer from George Mason for what that's worth.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:31 pm
by ponderingmeerkat
jdotl wrote:Please assume...I do not care...I am solely interested...so please refrain from any negativity... I also have XXXX on the list with a generous scholly. But I eliminated it from my list. I understand it may be the best...but reasons.
Quite possibly the most defensive, special snowflake-y opening post I've seen on the "Choosing a Law School" forum in a while (and that's saying something).
You have fully-shitty options listed and the only marginally-shitty, halfway-defensible option available to you given your goals is summarily ruled out for "reasons".
What do you want any of us to say? There are no options here for the mob to speak to. So...
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:40 pm
by grades??
At Duke/UVA. It is not easy to get DC biglaw from these schools. I know people in top 20% who completely struck out DC, but had v5 offers in NYC. In fact, we have a transfer from one of those two schools who was top 10% at his old school. At oci, didn't get a single DC callback.
If you think you are going to get DC biglaw from either, well you are lying to yourself. There are 1000 kids at just Georgetown and GW per class that will be more qualified for DC biglaw than you, and barely any of them will get it.
If you want to work in a small firm/state govt in NC, go to UNC. If you want a small firm/maybe state govt in VA, go to W&L. If neither are what you want, you either have to change your goals or change your schools.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:43 pm
by jdotl
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Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:46 pm
by Easterbork
This is me refraining
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:50 pm
by grades??
jdotl wrote:grades?? wrote:At Duke/UVA. It is not easy to get DC biglaw from these schools. I know people in top 20% who completely struck out DC, but had v5 offers in NYC. In fact, we have a transfer from one of those two schools who was top 10% at his old school. At oci, didn't get a single DC callback.
If you think you are going to get DC biglaw from either, well you are lying to yourself. There are 1000 kids at just Georgetown and GW per class that will be more qualified for DC biglaw than you, and barely any of them will get it.
If you want to work in a small firm/state govt in NC, go to UNC. If you want a small firm/maybe state govt in VA, go to W&L. If neither are what you want, you either have to change your goals or change your schools.
This was very helpful. Thank you.
I hope you take this seriously. Not being negative, but the reality is you will not get DC biglaw from either school. The factual reality is that it is impossible. You could be #1 in your class and still have a great chance at striking out. I hope you either reconsider your goals or if not, reconsider your schools. That might mean a retake.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:59 pm
by TheSpanishMain
grades?? wrote:At Duke/UVA. It is not easy to get DC biglaw from these schools. I know people in top 20% who completely struck out DC, but had v5 offers in NYC. In fact, we have a transfer from one of those two schools who was top 10% at his old school. At oci, didn't get a single DC callback.
If you think you are going to get DC biglaw from either, well you are lying to yourself. There are 1000 kids at just Georgetown and GW per class that will be more qualified for DC biglaw than you, and barely any of them will get it.
If you want to work in a small firm/state govt in NC, go to UNC. If you want a small firm/maybe state govt in VA, go to W&L. If neither are what you want, you either have to change your goals or change your schools.
I do think this overstates how hard it is to get DC BigLaw somewhat. It's tough but it's not a SCOTUS clerkship or something.
Still, don't go to UNC or WL if your goal is DC BigLaw.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:26 pm
by vcap180
These threads have a special ability to bring out both the most special of snowflakes, and the most pessimistic of doomsday prophets.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:28 pm
by UVA2B
I'm really sad I missed all the deletions. They sound savory.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:32 pm
by runinthefront
TheSpanishMain wrote:grades?? wrote:At Duke/UVA. It is not easy to get DC biglaw from these schools. I know people in top 20% who completely struck out DC, but had v5 offers in NYC. In fact, we have a transfer from one of those two schools who was top 10% at his old school. At oci, didn't get a single DC callback.
If you think you are going to get DC biglaw from either, well you are lying to yourself. There are 1000 kids at just Georgetown and GW per class that will be more qualified for DC biglaw than you, and barely any of them will get it.
If you want to work in a small firm/state govt in NC, go to UNC. If you want a small firm/maybe state govt in VA, go to W&L. If neither are what you want, you either have to change your goals or change your schools.
I do think this overstates how hard it is to get DC BigLaw somewhat. It's tough but it's not a SCOTUS clerkship or something.
Still, don't go to UNC or WL if your goal is DC BigLaw.
Where was the overstatement in this post?
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:37 pm
by vcap180
A peice of constructive advice if you really want to help some of these OPs: if someone is uninformed enough to think these are solid DC biglaw options, you are not doing them any favors by telling them it is "factually impossible" to achieve that goal. W&L, for instance, can put OP in touch with dozens of grads in DC biglaw - and I bet that would be enough for them to discredit the truth underlying your hyperbole.... Just saying.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:42 pm
by UVA2B
vcap180 wrote:A peice of constructive advice if you really want to help some of these OPs: if someone is uninformed enough to think these are solid DC biglaw options, you are not doing them any favors by telling them it is "factually impossible" to achieve that goal. W&L, for instance, can put OP in touch with dozens of grads in DC biglaw - and I bet that would be enough for them to discredit the truth underlying your hyperbole.... Just saying.
I mean, that's ex post data vs. ex ante data. W&L can parade people who have gotten DC Biglaw as anecdotal evidence to admitted students to make it seem achievable, while those here are trying to show objective data that shows ~10-15% of W&L grads have a shot at DC Biglaw (or more accurately Biglaw generally), and it's unreasonable to to expect you'll end up in that group due to law school grading. I agree with your basic premise of methods of persuasion, but showing it's hard to get DC Biglaw from Duke/UVA should be equally anecdotal to parading a graduate who ended up in DC Biglaw from W&L.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:47 pm
by vcap180
UVA2B wrote:vcap180 wrote:A peice of constructive advice if you really want to help some of these OPs: if someone is uninformed enough to think these are solid DC biglaw options, you are not doing them any favors by telling them it is "factually impossible" to achieve that goal. W&L, for instance, can put OP in touch with dozens of grads in DC biglaw - and I bet that would be enough for them to discredit the truth underlying your hyperbole.... Just saying.
I mean, that's ex post data vs. ex ante data. W&L can parade people who have gotten DC Biglaw as anecdotal evidence to admitted students to make it seem achievable, while those here are trying to show objective data that shows ~10-15% of W&L grads have a shot at DC Biglaw (or more accurately Biglaw generally), and it's unreasonable to to expect you'll end up in that group due to law school grading. I agree with your basic premise of methods of persuasion, but showing it's hard to get DC Biglaw from Duke/UVA should be equally anecdotal to parading a graduate who ended up in DC Biglaw from W&L.
Yep 100% agree. My main point, and I'm trying not to be too blunt (read: mean), is that the type of candidate who thinks these are good options this late in the cycle is probably the type to be easily influenced by an exception to the rule ... and thus require a more nuanced explanation of why their plan sucks... I certainly won't be giving any such explanation, but I know there's lots of helpful ppl on this board that potentially might lol.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:42 pm
by Pragmatic Gun
vcap180 wrote:These threads have a special ability to bring out both the most special of snowflakes, and the most pessimistic of doomsday prophets.
Re: UNC v W&L for D.C. BigLaw
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:47 am
by TheSpanishMain
runinthefront wrote:TheSpanishMain wrote:grades?? wrote:At Duke/UVA. It is not easy to get DC biglaw from these schools. I know people in top 20% who completely struck out DC, but had v5 offers in NYC. In fact, we have a transfer from one of those two schools who was top 10% at his old school. At oci, didn't get a single DC callback.
If you think you are going to get DC biglaw from either, well you are lying to yourself. There are 1000 kids at just Georgetown and GW per class that will be more qualified for DC biglaw than you, and barely any of them will get it.
If you want to work in a small firm/state govt in NC, go to UNC. If you want a small firm/maybe state govt in VA, go to W&L. If neither are what you want, you either have to change your goals or change your schools.
I do think this overstates how hard it is to get DC BigLaw somewhat. It's tough but it's not a SCOTUS clerkship or something.
Still, don't go to UNC or WL if your goal is DC BigLaw.
Where was the overstatement in this post?
Just general tone. People talk about DC BigLaw as though it's some impossible unicorn outcome instead of something that is tough but not impossibly so. It isn't true, for example, that "barely any" Georgetown grads get DC BigLaw. (GW, maybe you could make that argument.)
I'm not saying DC BigLaw is a common spot for GULC grads to land, and I would advise anyone who was DC BigLaw or bust not to attend GULC. At the same time, it's not an insanely anomalous outcome. I know plenty of GULC students, including some median schlubs like me, who readily got DC BigLaw offers.