Top Law Schools

Currently between Vanderbilt or UF. Plan on working in Miami which makes me lean towards UF, where I would essentially be going for free. Vandy only offered 25k/year. Thoughts?

Total COA at each? Career goals? LSAT/GPA?

cavalier1138 wrote:Total COA at each? Career goals? LSAT/GPA?

Vandy will end up being around $80,000 total with UF being $9,000-$11,000
Lsat 165 taken once GPA 3.7
Not 100% sure about career trajectory, obviously not gunning for biglaw at all, finance major currently

mjdlcm wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Total COA at each? Career goals? LSAT/GPA?

Vandy will end up being around $80,000 total with UF being $9,000-$11,000
Lsat 165 taken once GPA 3.7
Not 100% sure about career trajectory, obviously not gunning for biglaw at all, finance major currently

Financing everything with loans? Any familial support?

bwaldorf wrote:

mjdlcm wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Total COA at each? Career goals? LSAT/GPA?

Vandy will end up being around $80,000 total with UF being $9,000-$11,000
Lsat 165 taken once GPA 3.7
Not 100% sure about career trajectory, obviously not gunning for biglaw at all, finance major currently

Financing everything with loans? Any familial support?

I'll definitely need to take out loans, but my family will be helping as much as they can, which could potentially be a good amount of the money considering I specifically went to UF undergrad for free knowing I would like to save the money for grad school. Only thing that scares me about Vandy is the small amount of Miami firms that offer OCI's and the fact that my tour guide when I visited basically explained that it was slightly difficult to break into the Miami market.

I think UF in this situation is the right call.

mjdlcm wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Total COA at each? Career goals? LSAT/GPA?

Vandy will end up being around $80,000 total with UF being $9,000-$11,000
Lsat 165 taken once GPA 3.7
Not 100% sure about career trajectory, obviously not gunning for biglaw at all, finance major currently

Is the COA taking into account cost of living? You're likely looking at $80K in tuition at Vandy alone, no? With 25/year, you'd be looking at 100k+.

If you have strong Florida ties and Vandy would really only be 80k in debt, I'd maybe do Vandy.

FWIW, I was in a nearly identical situation (Vandy vs. another southeastern T50 school w/$$$) and chose the regional school over Vandy. Worked out for me but there's way less margin for error in terms of landing high-level jobs.

Vandy. You will carry your credentials with you for the rest of your life. Think long term. Vandy has a national/regional reach. UF has a local (Florida) reach. If something happens to you down the road in your life, and you find yourself looking for a job outside of Florida, a Vandy degree will do it.
Vandy all the way!!!

TudoBem wrote:Vandy. You will carry your credentials with you for the rest of your life. Think long term. Vandy has a national/regional reach. UF has a local (Florida) reach. If something happens to you down the road in your life, and you find yourself looking for a job outside of Florida, a Vandy degree will do it.
Vandy all the way!!!

OP, in case it wasn't clarified earlier, this is nonsense.

If you want to work in Florida and aren't gunning for biglaw, UF is 100% the right choice in your situation.

cavalier1138 wrote:

TudoBem wrote:Vandy. You will carry your credentials with you for the rest of your life. Think long term. Vandy has a national/regional reach. UF has a local (Florida) reach. If something happens to you down the road in your life, and you find yourself looking for a job outside of Florida, a Vandy degree will do it.
Vandy all the way!!!

OP, in case it wasn't clarified earlier, this is nonsense.

If you want to work in Florida and aren't gunning for biglaw, UF is 100% the right choice in your situation.

"not gunning for biglaw" isn't really convincing evidence that OP doesn't actually want biglaw (whether OP realizes it or not). It'd be helpful to get some inkling of what OP wants to do. Lots of 0Ls don't realize that (a) biglaw is basically the only way they'll make more than 60/70k starting out and (b) many of the things they say they want to do are traditionally done at biglaw firms (Smith, Smith, & Smith in Ocala isn't doing "international business").

With UF undergrad and what sound like strong ties to Florida, I'd imagine that OP would have a pretty good shot at employment in FL with a Vandy law degree while retaining some geographic flexibility/possibility of biglaw elsewhere. Someone familiar with the FL market can call me out if that's wrong. Obviously, if OP wants to be a state prosecutor in FL or wants to do estate planning at a small FL firm, then UF is the right call. But we don't know that yet. Vandy gives OP around a 50% shot at biglaw, while at UF it's, what, 15-20%? That's why it'd be helpful to know goals here.

FL was one of the market I was looking into due to immediate family living there (and I almost went to Vandy). This is tough, and you wanting S. Fl makes it even more difficult.

I honestly have to vote for Vandy. IIRC, you have to be like top 20% in your class to get a shot at Florida B/L from UF. From my limited contacts in FL this number will stretch to around top 1/3 - 40% from Vandy.

The caveat though is that you want S. FL - that market is very hard for anybody (including t14). I'd really consider opening up to working in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax as well FWIW.

foregetaboutdre wrote:FL was one of the market I was looking into due to immediate family living there (and I almost went to Vandy). This is tough, and you wanting S. Fl makes it even more difficult.

I honestly have to vote for Vandy. IIRC, you have to be like top 20% in your class to get a shot at Florida B/L from UF. From my limited contacts in FL this number will stretch to around top 1/3 - 40% from Vandy.

The caveat though is that you want S. FL - that market is very hard for anybody (including t14). I'd really consider opening up to working in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax as well FWIW.

Honestly, that's not going to be any easier from Vandy. It's advisable to target as many markets as possible, but if OP isn't at UF, OP's best chances will likely be in his/her home market in Florida. Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville are all very insular markets and don't have many SAs. The competition for the SAs in those cities is pretty heated.

Basically, your advice is correct, but practically, I don't think OP would have more luck in those markets (especially if he/she is from Miami).

AT9 wrote:With UF undergrad and what sound like strong ties to Florida, I'd imagine that OP would have a pretty good shot at employment in FL with a Vandy law degree while retaining some geographic flexibility/possibility of biglaw elsewhere. Someone familiar with the FL market can call me out if that's wrong. Obviously, if OP wants to be a state prosecutor in FL or wants to do estate planning at a small FL firm, then UF is the right call. But we don't know that yet. Vandy gives OP around a 50% shot at biglaw, while at UF it's, what, 15-20%? That's why it'd be helpful to know goals here.

It really depends on the ties. UF undergrad helps, but if OP isn't from Miami, it's still going to be an upward climb. Miami is a very desirable spot. OP's problem at Vandy is going to be that OP will be battling people from strong regionals and lower t14s who grew up in Miami, people from Harvard (Miami firms love hiring Harvard students), and the top kids from the Florida state schools. I think when you look around at the Miami biglaw SAs, I'd say 75+% go to either HYS students or top students at Florida schools, but I haven't crunched the numbers. That's more of a guesstimation.

OP certainly has a shot if he/she does quite well at Vandy, but without ties to South Florida, it's difficult. And if OP doesn't do well at Vandy (is around median), it's basically a hail mary's chance.

Of course, OP can still get back to Florida since he/she seems to have some ties and a UF undergrad degree, but it'll take a lot more networking and effort than if he/she were at UF.

I think in OP's case, going to Florida is a good deal. It doesn't sound like OP is set on biglaw (if he/she were, I'd advise them differently). If OP puts the effort in, OP can find a job in Miami/South Florida, especially if OP has ties there. If OP isn't near the top of the class, it'll take some networking and effort, but it's very possible.

Again, though, it's hard to give advice when OP doesn't seem to really know what he/she wants to do.

OP, are you from Florida?(beyond doing undergrad here) Obviously, I think you know the pros and cons of Gainesville. Nashville will likely be a better experience, but it's hard to turn down the opportunity to walk out of law school with next to no debt. That's especially true when you know you want to practice in Florida.

lawman84 wrote:

foregetaboutdre wrote:FL was one of the market I was looking into due to immediate family living there (and I almost went to Vandy). This is tough, and you wanting S. Fl makes it even more difficult.

I honestly have to vote for Vandy. IIRC, you have to be like top 20% in your class to get a shot at Florida B/L from UF. From my limited contacts in FL this number will stretch to around top 1/3 - 40% from Vandy.

The caveat though is that you want S. FL - that market is very hard for anybody (including t14). I'd really consider opening up to working in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax as well FWIW.

Honestly, that's not going to be any easier from Vandy. It's advisable to target as many markets as possible, but if OP isn't at UF, OP's best chances will likely be in his/her home market in Florida. Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville are all very insular markets and don't have many SAs. The competition for the SAs in those cities is pretty heated.

Basically, your advice is correct, but practically, I don't think OP would have more luck in those markets (especially if he/she is from Miami).

AT9 wrote:With UF undergrad and what sound like strong ties to Florida, I'd imagine that OP would have a pretty good shot at employment in FL with a Vandy law degree while retaining some geographic flexibility/possibility of biglaw elsewhere. Someone familiar with the FL market can call me out if that's wrong. Obviously, if OP wants to be a state prosecutor in FL or wants to do estate planning at a small FL firm, then UF is the right call. But we don't know that yet. Vandy gives OP around a 50% shot at biglaw, while at UF it's, what, 15-20%? That's why it'd be helpful to know goals here.

It really depends on the ties. UF undergrad helps, but if OP isn't from Miami, it's still going to be an upward climb. Miami is a very desirable spot. OP's problem at Vandy is going to be that OP will be battling people from strong regionals and lower t14s who grew up in Miami, people from Harvard (Miami firms love hiring Harvard students), and the top kids from the Florida state schools. I think when you look around at the Miami biglaw SAs, I'd say 75+% go to either HYS students or top students at Florida schools, but I haven't crunched the numbers. That's more of a guesstimation.

OP certainly has a shot if he/she does quite well at Vandy, but without ties to South Florida, it's difficult. And if OP doesn't do well at Vandy (is around median), it's basically a hail mary's chance.

Of course, OP can still get back to Florida since he/she seems to have some ties and a UF undergrad degree, but it'll take a lot more networking and effort than if he/she were at UF.

I think in OP's case, going to Florida is a good deal. It doesn't sound like OP is set on biglaw (if he/she were, I'd advise them differently). If OP puts the effort in, OP can find a job in Miami/South Florida, especially if OP has ties there. If OP isn't near the top of the class, it'll take some networking and effort, but it's very possible.

Again, though, it's hard to give advice when OP doesn't seem to really know what he/she wants to do.

OP, are you from Florida?(beyond doing undergrad here) Obviously, I think you know the pros and cons of Gainesville. Nashville will likely be a better experience, but it's hard to turn down the opportunity to walk out of law school with next to no debt. That's especially true when you know you want to practice in Florida.

Point taken as my family is from one of those insular markets (Tampa, Orl, Jax, etc..) and definitely helped my job search there, but I also had success in the other markets. If OP is from Miami, I think he will be perfectly fine applying other places in the state (and still get the FL boost). The easy explanation is to go on how Miami is too congested now and the COL is through the roof.

I think the other markets WILL be easier to crack into from Vandy. The main point is the OP does not have to be top 20% to get biglaw screeners in those markets from Vandy. Just my advice though. There are definitely pros for going to UF as well.

foregetaboutdre wrote:Point taken as my family is from one of those insular markets (Tampa, Orl, Jax, etc..) and definitely helped my job search there, but I also had success in the other markets. If OP is from Miami, I think he will be perfectly fine applying other places in the state (and still get the FL boost). The easy explanation is to go on how Miami is too congested now and the COL is through the roof.

I think the other markets WILL be easier to crack into from Vandy. The main point is the OP does not have to be top 20% to get biglaw screeners in those markets from Vandy. Just my advice though. There are definitely pros for going to UF as well.

I strongly disagree with that notion if we're talking about Florida markets. Vandy is very well-respected down here, but you'll have to do well to get looks in markets that aren't your home market. Even then, you're fighting an uphill battle.

Don't get me wrong. He's perfectly fine applying to every Florida market. It's just very hard to convert applications into screeners and screeners into callbacks when you're not from that market. Being a Florida undergrad is one thing that OP has going for him. I think that offers a boost.

I interviewed for SAs in every major Florida market, and it's not easy to convert screeners into callbacks. The "Why Jax/Orlando/Tampa/Miami?" question is huge. You have to have a good answer for it. If you don't, you don't stand a strong chance of getting a callback.

But again, this is a tough question to answer without knowing what OP's goals are. OP may not be interested at all in biglaw, which would render this conversation moot.

What makes me choose Florida here is that we're talking about $10k in debt vs. $80k in debt (or worse) for maybe a marginally better shot at Florida biglaw, if even that.(and if OP definitely wants something other than biglaw, the choice is even easier)

lawman84 wrote:

foregetaboutdre wrote:FL was one of the market I was looking into due to immediate family living there (and I almost went to Vandy). This is tough, and you wanting S. Fl makes it even more difficult.

I honestly have to vote for Vandy. IIRC, you have to be like top 20% in your class to get a shot at Florida B/L from UF. From my limited contacts in FL this number will stretch to around top 1/3 - 40% from Vandy.

The caveat though is that you want S. FL - that market is very hard for anybody (including t14). I'd really consider opening up to working in Tampa, Orlando, and Jax as well FWIW.

Honestly, that's not going to be any easier from Vandy. It's advisable to target as many markets as possible, but if OP isn't at UF, OP's best chances will likely be in his/her home market in Florida. Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville are all very insular markets and don't have many SAs. The competition for the SAs in those cities is pretty heated.

Basically, your advice is correct, but practically, I don't think OP would have more luck in those markets (especially if he/she is from Miami).

AT9 wrote:With UF undergrad and what sound like strong ties to Florida, I'd imagine that OP would have a pretty good shot at employment in FL with a Vandy law degree while retaining some geographic flexibility/possibility of biglaw elsewhere. Someone familiar with the FL market can call me out if that's wrong. Obviously, if OP wants to be a state prosecutor in FL or wants to do estate planning at a small FL firm, then UF is the right call. But we don't know that yet. Vandy gives OP around a 50% shot at biglaw, while at UF it's, what, 15-20%? That's why it'd be helpful to know goals here.

It really depends on the ties. UF undergrad helps, but if OP isn't from Miami, it's still going to be an upward climb. Miami is a very desirable spot. OP's problem at Vandy is going to be that OP will be battling people from strong regionals and lower t14s who grew up in Miami, people from Harvard (Miami firms love hiring Harvard students), and the top kids from the Florida state schools. I think when you look around at the Miami biglaw SAs, I'd say 75+% go to either HYS students or top students at Florida schools, but I haven't crunched the numbers. That's more of a guesstimation.

OP certainly has a shot if he/she does quite well at Vandy, but without ties to South Florida, it's difficult. And if OP doesn't do well at Vandy (is around median), it's basically a hail mary's chance.

Of course, OP can still get back to Florida since he/she seems to have some ties and a UF undergrad degree, but it'll take a lot more networking and effort than if he/she were at UF.

I think in OP's case, going to Florida is a good deal. It doesn't sound like OP is set on biglaw (if he/she were, I'd advise them differently). If OP puts the effort in, OP can find a job in Miami/South Florida, especially if OP has ties there. If OP isn't near the top of the class, it'll take some networking and effort, but it's very possible.

Again, though, it's hard to give advice when OP doesn't seem to really know what he/she wants to do.

OP, are you from Florida?(beyond doing undergrad here) Obviously, I think you know the pros and cons of Gainesville. Nashville will likely be a better experience, but it's hard to turn down the opportunity to walk out of law school with next to no debt. That's especially true when you know you want to practice in Florida.

Yeah I am born and raised in Miami

mjdlcm wrote:Yeah I am born and raised in Miami

That'll make it a bit easier then. Any idea on your career goals? You said that you're not gunning for biglaw at all. Does that mean you want nothing to do with it, or does it mean that you'd take it but it's not your only goal? Do you want to work for a law firm, the government, or public interest? Do you want to do civil or criminal litigation or transactional/corporate law?

You may not have answers to these questions, but if you do, they'd help with the advice I could give you. I'd still say that UF seems like a better deal here. Although, I guess that also depends on how much your family would be able to chip away from your Vandy COA.