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Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:20 am
by UCIPI
PI oriented. Have a good scholarship from UCI. I have seen on their website and in other places that the school is strongly committed to public service/public interest. I am interested to know if this is just a marketing angle or if it actually has any substance behind it. Basically, for PI law, is Irvine the same as all other schools or does it perform slightly better than its peers due to this so called "commitment".
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:23 am
by cavalier1138
Look at their job placement statistics and their LRAP program. That's much more valuable than a stated commitment.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:30 am
by mudiverse
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Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:37 am
by zot1
mudiverse wrote:92% of students did pro bono work...seems like its heavily emphasized at the school.
I was just coming to say this.
In addition, a lot of students participate in PILF, which funds PI summer work, and you can look at employment placements as well.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:47 pm
by Nebby
mudiverse wrote:92% of students did pro bono work...seems like its heavily emphasized at the school.
100% of CLS students did pro bono work because it's required to graduate
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:51 pm
by zot1
Nebby wrote:mudiverse wrote:92% of students did pro bono work...seems like its heavily emphasized at the school.
100% of CLS students did pro bono work because it's required to graduate
Because that's a state requirement that will soon be implemented in CA. More impressively is when you break it down by hours. Most people did over 150 hours.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:52 pm
by Nebby
To answer your question, OP, UCI's PI placement is the same as its peers.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:39 pm
by cavalier1138
zot1 wrote:Nebby wrote:mudiverse wrote:92% of students did pro bono work...seems like its heavily emphasized at the school.
100% of CLS students did pro bono work because it's required to graduate
Because that's a state requirement that will soon be implemented in CA. More impressively is when you break it down by hours. Most people did over 150 hours.
Since pretty much every clinic in every school qualifies as pro bono, I have to agree with the "not impressed" camp.
Look at the school's job placement, not their pro bono rate. That's a much better indication of their PI leanings, and as Nebby said, they're on a par with their peers.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 pm
by tinyvessels
Literally every law school talks about 'commitment to public service' either in their mission statement or somewhere on their website. It's a nice talking point to shill out when law schools want to look like they care about impacting change in the world, and helping marginalized groups, so people think they're not just churning out corporate lawyers who want to spend their whole lives dealing with rich people problems lol.
I'm not saying it's necessarily insincere, but these law schools know how to market. Look at the cold, hard numbers of students getting into PI instead of the carefully orchestrated PR photos/articles that every law school places on their website/pamphlets.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:57 pm
by Nebby
tinyvessels wrote:Literally every law school talks about 'commitment to public service' either in their mission statement or somewhere on their website. It's a nice talking point to shill out when law schools want to look like they care about impacting change in the world, and helping marginalized groups, so people think they're not just churning out corporate lawyers who want to spend their whole lives dealing with rich people problems lol.
I'm not saying it's necessarily insincere, but these law schools know how to market. Look at the cold, hard numbers of students getting into PI instead of the carefully orchestrated PR photos/articles that every law school places on their website/pamphlets.
Worst part is that outside of the T14 schools aren't even doing that
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:13 pm
by tinyvessels
Nebby wrote:tinyvessels wrote:Literally every law school talks about 'commitment to public service' either in their mission statement or somewhere on their website. It's a nice talking point to shill out when law schools want to look like they care about impacting change in the world, and helping marginalized groups, so people think they're not just churning out corporate lawyers who want to spend their whole lives dealing with rich people problems lol.
I'm not saying it's necessarily insincere, but these law schools know how to market. Look at the cold, hard numbers of students getting into PI instead of the carefully orchestrated PR photos/articles that every law school places on their website/pamphlets.
Worst part is that outside of the T14 schools aren't even doing that
LMAO...You didn't lie.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:13 pm
by zot1
cavalier1138 wrote:zot1 wrote:Nebby wrote:mudiverse wrote:92% of students did pro bono work...seems like its heavily emphasized at the school.
100% of CLS students did pro bono work because it's required to graduate
Because that's a state requirement that will soon be implemented in CA. More impressively is when you break it down by hours. Most people did over 150 hours.
Since pretty much every clinic in every school qualifies as pro bono, I have to agree with the "not impressed" camp.
Look at the school's job placement, not their pro bono rate. That's a much better indication of their PI leanings, and as Nebby said, they're on a par with their peers.
I mean, that's fine. But at UCI everyone has to do a required clinic. So those numbers you're seeing are in addition to clinic.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:15 pm
by zot1
tinyvessels wrote:Literally every law school talks about 'commitment to public service' either in their mission statement or somewhere on their website. It's a nice talking point to shill out when law schools want to look like they care about impacting change in the world, and helping marginalized groups, so people think they're not just churning out corporate lawyers who want to spend their whole lives dealing with rich people problems lol.
I'm not saying it's necessarily insincere, but these law schools know how to market. Look at the cold, hard numbers of students getting into PI instead of the carefully orchestrated PR photos/articles that every law school places on their website/pamphlets.
UCI makes a commitment to public interest for sure, but this shouldn't make you think that you won't find very biglaw oriented people at the school. I'd say the classes are about 50/50 split between private practice oriented and PI (I'm including government in here too).
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:22 pm
by landshoes
How do they fund summer PI learning opportunities?
Do the clinics give you marketable experience and connections?
How good is their loan forgiveness program? Really go into the details on this.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:31 pm
by zot1
landshoes wrote:How do they fund summer PI learning opportunities?
Do the clinics give you marketable experience and connections?
How good is their loan forgiveness program? Really go into the details on this.
I mean, all of this stuff is easily accessible on their page. But since I'm in a good mood, I'll tell you about it.
UCI has a student-run program called PILF. The students fund raise through the year to give students summer grants. Often times the school pays for most of it since the students don't always meet their goals. I believe the grant is 4K for the summer. I don't know if it's changed.
The clinics are very unique so it depends. I can't speak as to all of them, but I know people who've argued before the ninth circuit court in the environmental clinic, know people who've travel to China (on school funds) for the international law clinic, people who've gotten big settlements in the economics clinic (it has another name but for the love of God I can't remember it. But again, this is online). Also, new clinics opened up since I left. You can also do an alternative placement in lieu of your clinic but it has to be approved by the clinic director.
The lrap is for public service/interest positions. You have to be on a repayment plan (IBR, PAYE, etc.). 100% if making less than 60k. If you're making less than 80k there's a prorated percentage for what you make after 60k. It covers you for 10 years. I think you have three years to get into the program. If you'd like more specs, the website has more info. If you asked me, UCB's still better. But this ain't too bad either.
FWIW my class' gift was a one year post-grad public interest fellowship to someone in the next class. I don't know how much more commitment you'd like.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:38 pm
by landshoes
You don't actually need to tell me about it, I'm telling OP what they should be looking for (on UCI's page or from their admissions office). I have no interest in PI work, but was considering working as a PD and took that into account when looking for law schools. These are the questions I asked myself about every law school I was accepted to, and they seem to form a good basis for comparison between schools.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:39 pm
by bokampers
Nebby wrote:tinyvessels wrote:Literally every law school talks about 'commitment to public service' either in their mission statement or somewhere on their website. It's a nice talking point to shill out when law schools want to look like they care about impacting change in the world, and helping marginalized groups, so people think they're not just churning out corporate lawyers who want to spend their whole lives dealing with rich people problems lol.
I'm not saying it's necessarily insincere, but these law schools know how to market. Look at the cold, hard numbers of students getting into PI instead of the carefully orchestrated PR photos/articles that every law school places on their website/pamphlets.
Worst part is that outside of the
T14 T13 schools aren't even doing that
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:01 pm
by zot1
landshoes wrote:You don't actually need to tell me about it, I'm telling OP what they should be looking for (on UCI's page or from their admissions office). I have no interest in PI work, but was considering working as a PD and took that into account when looking for law schools. These are the questions I asked myself about every law school I was accepted to, and they seem to form a good basis for comparison between schools.
Oh that's fair. And yes, they are really good questions.
Re: Is UC Irvine's "commitment to public service" actually make any difference?
Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 pm
by ktbee
Current UCI student here.
I'd also add to the convo that when you're assessing "commitment to public service" claims from schools, that you ask the students how the school facilitates their pro bono program. So, for example, UCI has a full-time pro bono coordinator whose job it is to help students find and participate in pro bono. That's huge.
And just to add my little plug/personal opinion. UCI is very committed. Even those that want big law are involved in some form of pro bono because they really have something for everyone.
Finally, I wouldn't rely solely on the stats. School culture can't be fully captured by the numbers. Reach out to students and faculty and ask about it.